No one is likely to forget. Lessons learned? Skepticism in our Country's leadership. Why has it taken eight years for a discussion about our country's energy policies only now beginning to take place. And why is it being lead by an American oil man with a lot of natural gas to sell? Drill, drill, drill for oil on American soil and off America's coasts that will be sold on the world market to bridge the gap to an alternative energy future? Alas, we will probably have to wait for Communist China to fund the technology that will get us off fossil fuels which causes so much inequity in this world and threatens the safety of us all in so many ways. Except coal is cheap and China has an abundance. Still, we could do it here if our elected officials weren't so exposed to the energy lobby.
Actually no. The problem isn't Bush so much as the lack of accountability our elected officials in the Federal Government have demonstrated to the American citizens. Bush is only one part of that problem representing one part of our Federal Government. Never forget, Rose. And never ever trust your elected officials to do the right thing once they have traded up to represent Washington Lobbyists.
You can't even face the problems with your locally elected DA -how can you say anything about the national scene when you won't do anything about a very very real problem right here.
LOOK what's happening HERE. You wanna talk about doing the right thing - START HERE. RIGHT NOW.
What has Gallegos to do with the terrorists' attack on the towers shown burning in the picture? God dammit if you can connect him to that your case is made.
No - I'm simply saying, to the guy who decided to go on a rant about the evils of the Bush administration - not about the Islamic terrorists who killed his fellow citizens, not about the guys who saw off people's heads on camera and delight in it, not about the creatures who stone their women to death, but about Bush and corporations. To him, (or her) I say, look at what is going on underneath your nose.
You don't even have to make stuff up about Paul - he is the gift that keeps on giving. And you actually CAN do something at the local level.
Well nobody went on a rant about the evils of the Bush administration. You drug that into the conversation. What the terrorists did was evil - no other word for it. I won't paint all of Islam the same way. But I won't deny that there is a faction of Islam, albeit a small faction, that is evil. But evil comes in many guises. Not all of them based in the Middle East. But them that are, are funded, in part, with American dollars. Bush couldn't have done what he did without a willing Congress. There is plenty of blame to go around. We all know it. It's old news. The question is, will we vote in a representative government that will make corrections to bad choices that have been made. Or will we vote in the same kind of leadership that we have had for the last eight years. We have to set this Country in a positive direction. The scary part is that as a country we haven't hit rock bottom economically. It is going to get worse before it gets better. Other parts of the Country are much worse off than Humboldt County California. There are a few places that are not so bad off. How many more financial institutions will fail is anybody's guess. How many before the whole country follows suit? It has been a long time coming. If you don't understand what I am telling you, then you are living in a world insulated from reality. There, now go ahead, cast dispersions.
Yep. Our time as an empire is about to pass. We have a nation of men who do not want to defend us. Who would rather cast aspersions on those who do, and look the other way when the terrorists kill and saw off heads.
It's too bad. Because we had a good thing going. Freedom of speech. Freedom of Assembly. And so many small freedoms, freedom to choose what we wear. how we cut our hair, whether a man wants a beard or not, what kind of music we want to listen to... such a fragile thing. The United States. The Bill of Rights.
We have a nation of men and women that are, right now, actively defending us. We have them based in 128 countries around the world. We are in fact, for the time being, Atlas. We spend more money on defense than all other countries, totaled. The 2nd largest air force in the world is the American Navy. The largest is the American Air Force. That you think that this Country is undefended is awesome considering the number of highly trained, well equipped men and women who are dedicated to your safety. You can sleep safely tonight, Rose. But you may be right about the American Empire passing as we have created in China our possible downfall. They are already dictating the terms of trade. They could wipe us out as a country by demanding payment in full on the loans we have taken from them. They are investing in their military might and spending cash. They practice war games with Russia - a country rich in oil resources - for a possible future war with the U.S.A.. China alone has a population of 1.2 billion. Do you really think that it was a good idea that our Government gave American manufacturers tax incentives to move their facilities to that communist country. When will you ever admit that our sovereignty has been compromised by the global shopping spree for cheap foreign labor and that the final payment will be paid for by you and me.
128 nations ? You must be including marine embassy guards?
Can you give credit to Bush and his group for no further terrist attacks inside America? I can and I do.
If you know so much about history and the military you must know that Clinton had a chance to take out Obama in 98 but didn't. Even though there was a plan with two rehersals in America. Clinton was afraid of another mess like Somalia. And I don't mean the military screwed it up........ the politicians wouldn't give them Specter gunships.
Bush has done more to twart Islamic terrorists than Clinton ever dreamed of.
And by the way, when I say we have men who are no longer willing to defend the country - i am talking about the people who would pass ordinances forbidding military recruiting - as in Arcata. Any City which does so, should have to sign off that there will be no federal protection for them. Of any kind. Not natural disasters, not any kind whatsoever.
We have a voluntary draft system. It wasn't that way when I was young. Be glad for what you have. But don't forget what it really means. And who defends what you have.
If you think the end of Middle Eastern terrorism will end with the death of Osama Bin Laden then anything else you have to say about the matter is suspect. The fact is the President and his crack terrorist fighting cabinet dropped the ball before 9/11 and dropped it again when they reduced our presence in Afghanistan to go after a list of non-issues in Iraq. That you continue to ignore the cumulative violence that we unleashed with the invasion and subsequent occupation of Iraq, funding and arming both sides of the Sunni/Shea conflict, while at times indiscriminately targeting civilians, points to something that is quantitatively more evil than 9/11. God forgive us all. We had a chance to reap the good will of the entire world but chose instead to break conventions that guide civilized nations. The end of terrorist acts against the U.S.A. will come when we find in our nation the will to treat the third world with the respect that we demand for ourselves.
Please do tell me again how terrible an old man Saddam Hussein was. Then give me the total number of lives sacrificed to bring him to justice.
God protect our fighting men and women from the greed and stupidity of our Country's elected Government and it's paranoid citizenry who are so easily led.
If you're going to try to indict me sentence by sentence because I don't go into a whole dissertation on Bin Laden and Saddam et al, you're going to be here a long time. One sentence about one aspect of a thing does not a statement about the bigger picture make.
But it's nice to know we have an expert here - did you used to work for the state dept or something? You have inside knowledge of all this stuff? I assume you've gone grey at an early age, then.
It's useless to try to get someone like you to understand anything beyond the crazy rhetoric you eat up.
Are you as versed on the deathtoll in Chicago right now? Oakland?
Anyways, if pining for the whole world to 'love us' means laying down and letting them walk all over us, and treat us the way they treat their own citizens, no thank you.
I'm not surprised that you only want posts that agree with you. You do not well, defending your points of view. One comes to the conclusion rather soon that you feed exclusively at the banquet table of right-wing partisanship. Gluttony is a sin, Rose. You need to stay away from that kind of pie. Have you ever considered a 12 step program. You know, where once a week you meet with people who are similarly afflicted. Imagine introducing yourself -
Hello, my name is Rose, and I just love Rush Limbaugh...
rose is not a bad person, she is just a team player. sports and politics have a very similar tone in america.
every time i comment on this site, i get treated like a guy with a 49's jacket at a Oakland Raiders homegame. even though the raiders may suck this year, the fans will back them no matter what. there is no objectivity, just talking points that are spoken with blind devotion toward team.
rose is a team player. there is a lot of good to be said about that too. i would hire her. she is loyal as can be. and oviously sart.
...Haidt has conducted research in which liberals and conservatives were asked to project themselves into the minds of their opponents and answer questions about their moral reasoning. Conservatives, he said, prove quite adept at thinking like liberals, but liberals are consistently incapable of understanding the conservative point of view. “Liberals feel contempt for the conservative moral view, and that is very, very angering....
(Liberals) may think they understand the mind of a conservative—and that it’s narrow, bigoted, selfish, and downright evil—but in the vast majority of cases they are wrong....
It's an interesting observation, I think. Kinda explains alot of what we deal with here every day.
..the second rule of moral psychology is that morality is not just about how we treat each other (as most liberals think); it is also about binding groups together, supporting essential institutions, and living in a sanctified and noble way. When Republicans say that Democrats "just don't get it," this is the "it" to which they refer.
haidt: "Republicans have become the party of the sacred, appropriating not just the issues of God, faith, and religion, but also the sacred symbols of the nation such as the Flag and the military. The Democrats, in the process, have become the party of the profane—of secular life and material interests."
this is not research. this is an OPINION PIECE.
reading this opnion piece made me scared for our country. that people actually hate over 50% of the US population always freaks me out. hate speech is alive and well. no wonder "liberals" are being killed all over the US.
I would say it most certainly is an opinion piece - and that he has done some research. The others are responding to his comments in fairly complete detail, sometimes springing off on their own topics.
I think one of the points is that 'conservatives' do not hate liberals, finding them to be well-intentioned but misguided, and hoping they will see the light, whereas the 'liberals' HATE anyone conservative.
I can certainly testify that that is true right here.
I don't know what you are talking about - ';liberals' being killed all over the US? PEOPLE do get killed...
Where have I seen those pictures before? Can anyone help me out?
ReplyDeleteNever forget, Fred.
ReplyDeleteNo one is likely to forget. Lessons learned? Skepticism in our Country's leadership. Why has it taken eight years for a discussion about our country's energy policies only now beginning to take place. And why is it being lead by an American oil man with a lot of natural gas to sell? Drill, drill, drill for oil on American soil and off America's coasts that will be sold on the world market to bridge the gap to an alternative energy future? Alas, we will probably have to wait for Communist China to fund the technology that will get us off fossil fuels which causes so much inequity in this world and threatens the safety of us all in so many ways. Except coal is cheap and China has an abundance. Still, we could do it here if our elected officials weren't so exposed to the energy lobby.
ReplyDeleteYeah. Blame Bush. Feel better?
ReplyDeleteActually no. The problem isn't Bush so much as the lack of accountability our elected officials in the Federal Government have demonstrated to the American citizens. Bush is only one part of that problem representing one part of our Federal Government. Never forget, Rose. And never ever trust your elected officials to do the right thing once they have traded up to represent Washington Lobbyists.
ReplyDeleteYou can't even face the problems with your locally elected DA -how can you say anything about the national scene when you won't do anything about a very very real problem right here.
ReplyDeleteLOOK what's happening HERE. You wanna talk about doing the right thing - START HERE. RIGHT NOW.
Yeah. Blame Gallegos. Feel better?
ReplyDeleteYeah, let's focus on the national scene and ignore what has happened here. Let's rant and chant about Bush and the corporations. Ommmmmm.
ReplyDeleteWhy , Paul is so courageous, he actually shows up for work some days! He actually files cases. WOW! What more can we ask!
What has Gallegos to do with the terrorists' attack on the towers shown burning in the picture? God dammit if you can connect him to that your case is made.
ReplyDeleteYeah. :) It would be, wouldn't it :).
ReplyDeleteNo - I'm simply saying, to the guy who decided to go on a rant about the evils of the Bush administration - not about the Islamic terrorists who killed his fellow citizens, not about the guys who saw off people's heads on camera and delight in it, not about the creatures who stone their women to death, but about Bush and corporations. To him, (or her) I say, look at what is going on underneath your nose.
You don't even have to make stuff up about Paul - he is the gift that keeps on giving. And you actually CAN do something at the local level.
Well nobody went on a rant about the evils of the Bush administration. You drug that into the conversation. What the terrorists did was evil - no other word for it. I won't paint all of Islam the same way. But I won't deny that there is a faction of Islam, albeit a small faction, that is evil. But evil comes in many guises. Not all of them based in the Middle East. But them that are, are funded, in part, with American dollars. Bush couldn't have done what he did without a willing Congress. There is plenty of blame to go around. We all know it. It's old news. The question is, will we vote in a representative government that will make corrections to bad choices that have been made. Or will we vote in the same kind of leadership that we have had for the last eight years. We have to set this Country in a positive direction. The scary part is that as a country we haven't hit rock bottom economically. It is going to get worse before it gets better. Other parts of the Country are much worse off than Humboldt County California. There are a few places that are not so bad off. How many more financial institutions will fail is anybody's guess. How many before the whole country follows suit? It has been a long time coming. If you don't understand what I am telling you, then you are living in a world insulated from reality. There, now go ahead, cast dispersions.
ReplyDeleteYep. Our time as an empire is about to pass. We have a nation of men who do not want to defend us. Who would rather cast aspersions on those who do, and look the other way when the terrorists kill and saw off heads.
ReplyDeleteIt's too bad. Because we had a good thing going. Freedom of speech. Freedom of Assembly. And so many small freedoms, freedom to choose what we wear. how we cut our hair, whether a man wants a beard or not, what kind of music we want to listen to... such a fragile thing. The United States. The Bill of Rights.
We have a nation of men and women that are, right now, actively defending us. We have them based in 128 countries around the world. We are in fact, for the time being, Atlas. We spend more money on defense than all other countries, totaled. The 2nd largest air force in the world is the American Navy. The largest is the American Air Force. That you think that this Country is undefended is awesome considering the number of highly trained, well equipped men and women who are dedicated to your safety. You can sleep safely tonight, Rose. But you may be right about the American Empire passing as we have created in China our possible downfall. They are already dictating the terms of trade. They could wipe us out as a country by demanding payment in full on the loans we have taken from them. They are investing in their military might and spending cash. They practice war games with Russia - a country rich in oil resources - for a possible future war with the U.S.A.. China alone has a population of 1.2 billion. Do you really think that it was a good idea that our Government gave American manufacturers tax incentives to move their facilities to that communist country. When will you ever admit that our sovereignty has been compromised by the global shopping spree for cheap foreign labor and that the final payment will be paid for by you and me.
ReplyDeleteOn that we agree.
ReplyDeleteBush was pretty new on the job when the terrorists struck on 9/11. Seems to me that the incidents of that day changed his plans, too.
ReplyDelete128 nations ? You must be including marine embassy guards?
ReplyDeleteCan you give credit to Bush and his group for no further terrist attacks inside America? I can and I do.
If you know so much about history and the military you must know that Clinton had a chance to take out Obama in 98 but didn't. Even though there was a plan with two rehersals in America. Clinton was afraid of another mess like Somalia. And I don't mean the military screwed it up........ the politicians wouldn't give them Specter gunships.
Bush has done more to twart Islamic terrorists than Clinton ever dreamed of.
I will never forget.
God bless Amercia.
I will never forget - I count myself lucky to live here, and I understand how fragile an existence it is.
ReplyDeleteUmmm, but Clinton had a chance to get OSama, not OBama - though i am sure he wishes he had gotten OBama too. :).
And by the way, when I say we have men who are no longer willing to defend the country - i am talking about the people who would pass ordinances forbidding military recruiting - as in Arcata. Any City which does so, should have to sign off that there will be no federal protection for them. Of any kind. Not natural disasters, not any kind whatsoever.
ReplyDeleteWe have a voluntary draft system. It wasn't that way when I was young. Be glad for what you have. But don't forget what it really means. And who defends what you have.
If you think the end of Middle Eastern terrorism will end with the death of Osama Bin Laden then anything else you have to say about the matter is suspect. The fact is the President and his crack terrorist fighting cabinet dropped the ball before 9/11 and dropped it again when they reduced our presence in Afghanistan to go after a list of non-issues in Iraq. That you continue to ignore the cumulative violence that we unleashed with the invasion and subsequent occupation of Iraq, funding and arming both sides of the Sunni/Shea conflict, while at times indiscriminately targeting civilians, points to something that is quantitatively more evil than 9/11. God forgive us all. We had a chance to reap the good will of the entire world but chose instead to break conventions that guide civilized nations. The end of terrorist acts against the U.S.A. will come when we find in our nation the will to treat the third world with the respect that we demand for ourselves.
ReplyDeletePlease do tell me again how terrible an old man Saddam Hussein was. Then give me the total number of lives sacrificed to bring him to justice.
God protect our fighting men and women from the greed and stupidity of our Country's elected Government and it's paranoid citizenry who are so easily led.
If you're going to try to indict me sentence by sentence because I don't go into a whole dissertation on Bin Laden and Saddam et al, you're going to be here a long time. One sentence about one aspect of a thing does not a statement about the bigger picture make.
ReplyDeleteBut it's nice to know we have an expert here - did you used to work for the state dept or something? You have inside knowledge of all this stuff? I assume you've gone grey at an early age, then.
It's useless to try to get someone like you to understand anything beyond the crazy rhetoric you eat up.
Are you as versed on the deathtoll in Chicago right now? Oakland?
Anyways, if pining for the whole world to 'love us' means laying down and letting them walk all over us, and treat us the way they treat their own citizens, no thank you.
How does your last paragraph even remotely apply to Iraq, Rose.
ReplyDeletePartisan rhetoric replaces informed citizenship when people compare death tolls of American cities to that of Iraqi cities. Blatant idiocy, that.
ReplyDeleteIdiocy, you say. Another way of looking at things, too. A matter of perspective. One thing upsets you, the other you don't care about.
ReplyDeleteKinda like getting all agitated about flouride, but thinking pot, cocaine and even meth can be excused away.
Silly arguments all - because there'll never be a meeting of the minds. You see it one way.
Regardless, if you want to argue Iraq, there are more dedicated and interesting sites for you to visit. Lots that agree with you.
I'm not surprised that you only want posts that agree with you. You do not well, defending your points of view. One comes to the conclusion rather soon that you feed exclusively at the banquet table of right-wing partisanship. Gluttony is a sin, Rose. You need to stay away from that kind of pie. Have you ever considered a 12 step program. You know, where once a week you meet with people who are similarly afflicted. Imagine introducing yourself -
ReplyDeleteHello, my name is Rose, and I just love Rush Limbaugh...
rose is not a bad person, she is just a team player. sports and politics have a very similar tone in america.
ReplyDeleteevery time i comment on this site, i get treated like a guy with a 49's jacket at a Oakland Raiders homegame. even though the raiders may suck this year, the fans will back them no matter what. there is no objectivity, just talking points that are spoken with blind devotion toward team.
rose is a team player. there is a lot of good to be said about that too. i would hire her. she is loyal as can be. and oviously sart.
You think I am a team player? I ran TRACK.
ReplyDeletei accidently called you sart in my last post. i meant smart.
ReplyDeletetrack? now i know that you could catch me if i talked smack about you. but i was a wrestler, so i would win in the end;)
:) Wrestlers and runners. A different breed.
ReplyDelete...Haidt has conducted research in which liberals and conservatives were asked to project themselves into the minds of their opponents and answer questions about their moral reasoning. Conservatives, he said, prove quite adept at thinking like liberals, but liberals are consistently incapable of understanding the conservative point of view. “Liberals feel contempt for the conservative moral view, and that is very, very angering....
ReplyDelete(Liberals) may think they understand the mind of a conservative—and that it’s narrow, bigoted, selfish, and downright evil—but in the vast majority of cases they are wrong....
It's an interesting observation, I think. Kinda explains alot of what we deal with here every day.
I'm actually a progressive conservative with a liberal view of the world.
ReplyDeleteWho funded the research?
im a social liberal who is fiscally conservative.
ReplyDeletethat research is totally bunk.
Is it? You mean this?
ReplyDeleteWHAT MAKES PEOPLE VOTE REPUBLICAN? [9.9.08] By Jonathan Haidt
The follow up discussion is interesting, too...
DANIEL EVERETT - The Ties That Bind
HOWARD GARDNER
MICHAEL SHERMER - The Conscience of the Conservative
SCOTT ATRAN - How Religion Creates Moral Society
JAMES FOWLER - Why do People Vote at All?
ALISON GOPNIK - The Morality of Childbearing
linkSAM HARRIS - Brain Science and Human Values
JAMES O'DONNELL
ROGER SCHANK - Report From Florida
..the second rule of moral psychology is that morality is not just about how we treat each other (as most liberals think); it is also about binding groups together, supporting essential institutions, and living in a sanctified and noble way. When Republicans say that Democrats "just don't get it," this is the "it" to which they refer.
I don't think it is all bunk.
haidt: "Republicans have become the party of the sacred, appropriating not just the issues of God, faith, and religion, but also the sacred symbols of the nation such as the Flag and the military. The Democrats, in the process, have become the party of the profane—of secular life and material interests."
ReplyDeletethis is not research. this is an OPINION PIECE.
reading this opnion piece made me scared for our country. that people actually hate over 50% of the US population always freaks me out. hate speech is alive and well. no wonder "liberals" are being killed all over the US.
I would say it most certainly is an opinion piece - and that he has done some research. The others are responding to his comments in fairly complete detail, sometimes springing off on their own topics.
ReplyDeleteI think one of the points is that 'conservatives' do not hate liberals, finding them to be well-intentioned but misguided, and hoping they will see the light, whereas the 'liberals' HATE anyone conservative.
I can certainly testify that that is true right here.
I don't know what you are talking about - ';liberals' being killed all over the US? PEOPLE do get killed...