Check out the Redheaded Blackbelt's post on Humboldt Grow "a small but increasingly visible magazine devoted to marijuana... the editor/publisher(?) says "We need to stop lying and talk.... “I’m not going to lie–a lot of medical [marijuana] is BS,”... “Let’s keep discussing whether marijuana has recreational value. It isn’t that different from a beer or a cigarette....
Related: Humboldt Grow's Weblog (added to the blogroll in the sidebar)
He's right/ This is a dialog that needs to happen.
Humboldt Medical Supply: the different dispensary
ReplyDeleteArcata Eye May 20, 2008 Vol 12 No. 31 page 1
Kevin L. Hoover - Eye Editor
DOWNTOWN - Hang out for any length of time outside Arcata’s four medical cannabis dispensaries and you will observe people in obvious medical distress there to obtain needed medicine.
At all but one, you’ll also see folks whose maladies are not so apparent - strapping young men arriving in contractor-style trucks who might be on break from a roofing or painting job; college-age adults driving rice rockets with fancy wheels; and the “scruffy” types who quickly scuttle off with friends to a nearby remove - an alley or someone’s recessed driveway - to huddle over the prized bag.
While no one can fairly diagnose cannabis customers just by passing glimpses, it’s fair to wonder what debilitating conditions might lurk beneath these patrons’ hale and hardy outward appearance, for which they need treatment with high-kick pot.
Those questions don’t arise at Humboldt Medical Supply, LLC (HMS). There, a distinctly clinical scene awaits the potential cannabis customer - one which makes some of them turn on their heel and leave on sight. That’s no accident - HMS Board President Eric Heimstadt doesn’t service the stoner trade. “If they’re playing hacky-sack in the parking lot and talking to ‘Shady’ on their cell phone, we don’t want them,” Heimstadt said.
“They” don’t want HMC, either - the glaring white walls bearing patriotic decor, such as a kitschy painting of Apollo astronauts setting foot on the moon near an American flag, plus abundant logging and other historical memorabilia tends to deter those who lack a serious medical reason for seeking cannabis. “It freaks them out,” Heimstadt said.
If the clinical atmosphere doesn’t send the stoners reeling, the screening will. “They ask us, ‘Can we see your buds?’ We say ‘No,’” Heimstadt said. Instead, prospective patients are handed a hefty, 12-page pre-intake form that requires specific documentation of a debilitating disorder, plus a physician release so that the ailment can be verified with the patient’s doctor. Medications must also be brought in and inspected. And unlike other dispensaries, HMS refuses to sell to college students. “They say, ‘What do you mean, intake?’” Heimstadt said.
All applications are analyzed by the clinics two registered nurses, who double as case managers. HMS would like to hire an MSW as a counselor once some of the current regulatory disputes with the City are resolved. All HMS employees receive health insurance and full benefits.
The stringent intake requirements have taken a toll on inquiries, which is fine with HMS. On opening a few months ago at the former PC Sacchi Chevrolet dealership in the Danco-owned building on Eighth and I streets, HMS had up to 20 walk-ins a week looking to become patients. “Then word got out that we ‘re not that kind of place, now it’s down the three, four, five a week,” Heimstadt said.
At a different former car dealership a few blocks away at Sixth and I streets, The Humboldt Cooperative (THC) boasts some 6,000 patients, with thousands more forecast for addition this year. There, a steady stream of cars pull up, park, pop in, snag bags of nugs through a security window and head out.
With just 80 patients, Heimstadt can’t compete with THC, and doesn’t want to. he projects his maximum eventual caseload at 300. He also doesn’t want to charge as much for medicine as the other dispensaries, at which an ounce of cannabis might sell for $230 to $300. HMS charges about $200 per ounce, and Heimstadt says he’d like to get the price down to $68 to $70 per ounce. About half the clinic’s patients’ those who suffer from a terminal disease and who make less than $20,000 per year, receive their medicine free of charge.
HMS’s grow rooms have lain fallow since the recent Planning Commission ruling that agriculture, including downtown marijuana grows, are not permitted under the General Plan. That frustrates Heimstadt and his staff, given the level of preparation that went into building the facility.
NASA-grade ventilation systems with energy-efficient lighting, plus recycling of soil and filtration of wastewater are unlike anything in place at other Arcata dispensaries. HMS even participates in PG&E’s ClimateSmart program for purchasing carbon offsets. In terms of security, well over a dozen high-resolution security cameras monitor every nook and cranny of the facility, inside and out.
At this point, only the front office is open for business as the City Council and planning Commission push and pull over whether to allow growing downtown.
Heimstadt finds the City’s shapeshifting policies quixotic and capricious. “The reason we are where we are is that we were told to be there by the City,” he said. “We would have been anywhere we were told to be.” He wonders why HMS and the other clinics have been allowed to install large grow facilities, two of them fully operative, if the activity isn’t permitted. “We have a fully signed-off building permit that talks about grows,” he said.
“We have 12 places on the Plaza that sell booze, and they’re worried about my shop?” he puzzled.
Heimstadt is stoic about the reversals, but also committed to assisting decision makers with bringing rational implementation of Prop 215 into being. Some dispensaries’ leaders are mostly unseen - one recently offered to “work things out privately” with a councilmember - an offer that was rejected. But Heimstadt and his staff are present at and participate publicly in every relevant City meeting, often dropping off multiple copies of tidily assembled briefing binders for council members and committee members to study.
It was for the above reasons that Mayor Mark Wheetley recently dubbed HMS the “gold bar standard” in implementing a genuinely medical model for cannabis dispensation.
The courtly Heimstadt, 59, doesn’t dabble in the chest-thumping sanctimony that sometimes emanates from medical marijuana advocates. Somewhat enervated by recently diagnosed lymphoma, he remains cheerful but blunt, sometimes quoting Shakespeare but just as readily able to snatch verbiage from a Frank Zappa lyric.
He breezily acknowledges something most ardent medical cannabis supporters won’t or don’t - that the dispensary business is rife with corruption, and that some sell grow house-grown dope of questionable purity to recreational users at pumped-up prices under the aegis of medical caregiving.
“It’s called the Compassionate Use Act, not the ‘make loads of money act,’” he said. “It’s supposed to be medical marijuana, which was voted in by John Q. Public and Johnny Law to take care of people with medical problems, and not recreational users.”
Heimstadt shares the concern of Planning Commission Chair Robert Flint, who noted recently that federal authorities could descend at any time and shut down the burgeoning clinics.
“I worry about the feds, too,” Heimstadt said. “My best defense is that I’m not selling to kids in cars with spinning rims. I want to put together a model that no jury in the world would convict.”
He, like many, lays blame for the distorted and corrupt cannabis-scape on outmoded laws. “If it was legal, you wouldn’t have grow houses,” he said. “You don’t have ‘brew houses.’”
We need to see it decriminalized, then let's have the dialogue about the health benefits.
ReplyDeleteThis comment was deleted by the troll administrator .
ReplyDeletemresquan said...
ReplyDeleteWe need to see it decriminalized, then let's have the dialogue about the health benefits.
HMS (see center in frist post) only deals with HIV, AIDS, Cancer, MS and patients with Dx like that. Do you really think someone with cancer or AIDS or MS would BOTHER tanking something that didn't help them?
"dialogue about the health benefits"???
See also:
patients out of time: http://www.medicalcannabis.com/ their confrances are made up of MD's PhD's and RN's NOT STONERS! It's an org made up of the pateints who the US GOV still gives free MMJ to.
You kknow why there is a 'grow house" and "MMJ problem"???
Because the LAST item Daddy Bush did in office was to STOP this free program. Why? Because AIDS people were BEGGING to be put on it. And as 'everyone knows' AIDS is a curse from God upon homosexuals. So daddy Bush stop anyone else from joining this program.
Old Miss (UofMiss) grows LOTS of MMJ and sends out 1/2 pound cans every month to the few people who are still on it. (Bush Sr said if your on it you can still get it.)
For more "fun" check out:
In 1974 researchers at the Medical College of Virginia, who had been funded by the National Institute of Health to find evidence that marijuana damages the immune system, found instead that THC slowed the growth of three kinds of cancer in mice -- lung and breast cancer, and a virus-induced leukemia.
The DEA quickly shut down the Virginia study and all further cannabis/tumor research
(full peice below)
(but frist a link to the org. gov. study:
TR-446 Toxicology and Carcinogenesis Studies of 1-Trans-Delta9-Tetrahydrocannabinol (CAS No. 1972-08-3) in F344 Rats and B6C3F1 Mice (Gavage Studies) Nat. Institute of Health
http://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/index.cfm?objectid=070A2794-A17D-6590-91601A3B6811008A
Note they were pumping these anamiles FULL of Pot. Much much more then any one smokes. The study came to be when they (DEA/NIDA Nixion) found out that just pot wouldn't cause cancer (what they were trying to prove to discredit pot use) BUT that also even when they gave rats (and other test subjects) tumors, and pre-tumor cells, the group that was given POT lived sig. longer then the ones that didn't get the pot treatment.)
Pot Shrinks Tumors; Government Knew in '74
By Raymond Cushing, AlterNet
May 31, 2000 www.alternet.org/story/9257/
Raymond Cushing is a journalist and filmmaker. This article was named by Project Censored as a "Top Censored Story of 2000."
The term medical marijuana took on dramatic new meaning in February, 2000 when researchers in Madrid announced they had destroyed incurable brain tumors in rats by injecting them with THC, the active ingredient in cannabis.
The Madrid study marks only the second time that THC has been administered to tumor-bearing animals; the first was a Virginia investigation 26 years ago. In both studies, the THC shrank or destroyed tumors in a majority of the test subjects.
Most Americans don't know anything about the Madrid discovery. Virtually no major U.S. newspapers carried the story, which ran only once on the AP and UPI news wires, on Feb. 29, 2000.
The ominous part is that this isn't the first time scientists have discovered that THC shrinks tumors. In 1974 researchers at the Medical College of Virginia, who had been funded by the National Institute of Health to find evidence that marijuana damages the immune system, found instead that THC slowed the growth of three kinds of cancer in mice -- lung and breast cancer, and a virus-induced leukemia.
The DEA quickly shut down the Virginia study and all further cannabis/tumor research, according to Jack Herer, who reports on the events in his book, "The Emperor Wears No Clothes." In 1976 President Gerald Ford put an end to all public cannabis research and granted exclusive research rights to major pharmaceutical companies, who set out -- unsuccessfully -- to develop synthetic forms of THC that would deliver all the medical benefits without the "high."
The Madrid researchers reported in the March issue of "Nature Medicine" that they injected the brains of 45 rats with cancer cells, producing tumors whose presence they confirmed through magnetic resonance imaging (MRI). On the 12th day they injected 15 of the rats with THC and 15 with Win-55,212-2 a synthetic compound similar to THC. "All the rats left untreated uniformly died 12-18 days after glioma (brain cancer) cell inoculation ... Cannabinoid (THC)-treated rats survived significantly longer than control rats. THC administration was ineffective in three rats, which died by days 16-18. Nine of the THC-treated rats surpassed the time of death of untreated rats, and survived up to 19-35 days. Moreover, the tumor was completely eradicated in three of the treated rats." The rats treated with Win-55,212-2 showed similar results.
The Spanish researchers, led by Dr. Manuel Guzman of Complutense University, also irrigated healthy rats' brains with large doses of THC for seven days, to test for harmful biochemical or neurological effects. They found none.
"Careful MRI analysis of all those tumor-free rats showed no sign of damage related to necrosis, edema, infection or trauma ... We also examined other potential side effects of cannabinoid administration. In both tumor-free and tumor-bearing rats, cannabinoid administration induced no substantial change in behavioral parameters such as motor coordination or physical activity. Food and water intake as well as body weight gain were unaffected during and after cannabinoid delivery. Likewise, the general hematological profiles of cannabinoid-treated rats were normal. Thus, neither biochemical parameters nor markers of tissue damage changed substantially during the 7-day delivery period or for at least 2 months after cannabinoid treatment ended."
Guzman's investigation is the only time since the 1974 Virginia study that THC has been administered to live tumor-bearing animals. (The Spanish researchers cite a 1998 study in which cannabinoids inhibited breast cancer cell proliferation, but that was a "petri dish" experiment that didn't involve live subjects.)
In an email interview for this story, the Madrid researcher said he had heard of the Virginia study, but had never been able to locate literature on it. Hence, the Nature Medicine article characterizes the new study as the first on tumor-laden animals and doesn't cite the 1974 Virginia investigation.
"I am aware of the existence of that research. In fact I have attempted many times to obtain the journal article on the original investigation by these people, but it has proven impossible." Guzman said.
In 1983 the Reagan/Bush Administration tried to persuade American universities and researchers to destroy all 1966-76 cannabis research work, including compendiums in libraries, reports Jack Herer, who states, "We know that large amounts of information have since disappeared."
Guzman provided the title of the work -- "Antineoplastic activity of cannabinoids," an article in a 1975 Journal of the National Cancer Institute -- and this writer obtained a copy at the University of California medical school library in Davis and faxed it to Madrid.
The summary of the Virginia study begins, "Lewis lung adenocarcinoma growth was retarded by the oral administration of tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) and cannabinol (CBN)" -- two types of cannabinoids, a family of active components in marijuana. "Mice treated for 20 consecutive days with THC and CBN had reduced primary tumor size."
The 1975 journal article doesn't mention breast cancer tumors, which featured in the only newspaper story ever to appear about the 1974 study -- in the Local section of the Washington Post on August 18, 1974. Under the headline, "Cancer Curb Is Studied," it read in part:
"The active chemical agent in marijuana curbs the growth of three kinds of cancer in mice and may also suppress the immunity reaction that causes rejection of organ transplants, a Medical College of Virginia team has discovered." The researchers "found that THC slowed the growth of lung cancers, breast cancers and a virus-induced leukemia in laboratory mice, and prolonged their lives by as much as 36 percent."
Guzman, writing from Madrid, was eloquent in his response after this writer faxed him the clipping from the Washington Post of a quarter century ago. In translation, he wrote:
"It is extremely interesting to me, the hope that the project seemed to awaken at that moment, and the sad evolution of events during the years following the discovery, until now we once again Œdraw back the veil‚ over the anti-tumoral power of THC, twenty-five years later. Unfortunately, the world bumps along between such moments of hope and long periods of intellectual castration."
News coverage of the Madrid discovery has been virtually nonexistent in this country. The news broke quietly on Feb. 29, 2000 with a story that ran once on the UPI wire about the Nature Medicine article. This writer stumbled on it through a link that appeared briefly on the Drudge Report web page. The New York Times, Washington Post and Los Angeles Times all ignored the story, even though its newsworthiness is indisputable: a benign substance occurring in nature destroys deadly brain tumors.
Raymond Cushing is a journalist and filmmaker. This article was named by Project Censored as a "Top Censored Story of 2000."
Lets not forget that the US Govt Holds Patent on Medical Pot (#6,630,507)
ReplyDeleteYes, you read that correctly. The same government that insists that cannabis has no medical value, filed for and was awarded a patent (assigned to the US Dept of Health and Human Services) on the use of cannabis derived cannabinoids in the treatment of a wide variety of ailments, including stroke, trauma, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, HIV dementia, auto-immune disorders . . . the list goes on.
I've heard that it is also promising for brain cancer. If that is true, it should be immediately made legal, no ifs ands or buts.
ReplyDeleteSo here's the deal - you want to blame daddy Bush and the vast government conspiracy - BUT
A. the Baby Boomers are in charge now and pretty much all of them smoked pot, made brownies and a fair percentage probably grew a plant or two. Why have they not made it legal?
Why isn't it an issue where you could actually find agreement across party lines - enough to override any Presidential Veto?
Why didn't Clinton push to legalize, or at least decriminalize it?
Why didn't Saint Gore push for it? He coulda been even more popular if he'd made that into a movie, and probably looked less duplicitous - hell, he could even have converted his family's tobacco fields into pot fields.
In short - WHY HAS NO LEGISLATIVE BODY DEALT WITH THE ISSUE? Beyond the medical sham, I mean.
B. Now that Kennedy has a brain tumor, perhaps HE could institute a bill that would accomplish waht you want... because the solution sort of has to be Federal/ If only Humboldt County does it, you just end up with a bigger mess here than we already have.
C. Why doesn't the activist community take this on - more than just trying to sell the medical 215 sham?
If you believe in it, fight for it. Make it happen.
This kid with his magazine appears to be honest and not yet corrupted by those who will use him. He appears to have the courage of his convictions.
But calling these things "Wellness Dispensaries" is offensive, I'm sorry.
ReplyDeleteRose said...
ReplyDeleteSo here's the deal - you want to blame daddy Bush and the vast government conspiracy - BUT
NO NO NO Rose --
ITS SIMPLE FACT Daddy Bush in his last act in office CANCLED the IND program. The federal medical marijuana program -- referred to as a Compassionate Investigational New Drug (IND) program.
That program just turned 30 years old. and YES every pres. since then is to BLAME for the 'growing in the hills' and the 'travisty' that p215 has become. EVERYONE OF THEM!
Here are some web sites on the FED IND program that gives out 1/2 a pound of pot to patients every MONTH!
If this was in action then their would be no need for these local shops (there are about 1,000 in California right now, our local ones are the least expencive BTW).
Also note what the person is saying in the frist peice. He is NOT prasing the shops, and infact the same heat that Kevin Hoover took over his grow house thing, this guys shop is taking for lowering prices, given MMJ away to poor sick people and doing heavy screening.
The other shops don't like it when HMS has 2 RN's working for them to do the screening, kind of makes people go "so how come the REST of you guys are charging more and not paying RN's to do screening?"
Heck one of them (other shop owners) tried to get the Arcata City Council to fix prices when they heard HMS was opening, they were worried back then. Now they just set up Ain't HMS Blog sites, and talk trash about the people there.
Supposidly HMS owner is part of a VAST RIGHT WING CONSPIERRICY TO TAKE OVER MMJ in Humboldt. Which also Kevin Hoover is part of to. (oh you'll LOVE this part) The crazys went so far as to say that the name of the paper gives it away "the eye" like the eye on that back of the doller bill PROVES that Kevin HMS et al are part of the Illuminotie!
Anyway back on point -
a.) NOT ALL shops are the same, at least ONE I know of is diffrent.
b.) here is some web links on the US GOVS IND program that Bush shut down, then no other pres_ put back on line. Huge US GOV pot farm in UofMiss supplys it. This would put every shop in Cal out of business by just giving this 'weed' to sick people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compassionate_Investigational_New_Drug_program
http://www.mpp.org/news/press-releases/federal-medical-marijuana-prog.html
and also
"Chronic Cannabis Use in the Compassionate Investigational New Drug Program: An Examination of Benefits and Adverse Effects
of Legal Clinical Cannabis"
http://www.maps.org/mmj/russo2002.pdf
I agree that there is something wrong with charging high prices - recreational illegal prices, really - to the legitimate medical patients.
ReplyDeleteI understand the rationale, that they cannot just give it away to people who will than take it and sell it at the higher street price (yet another example of people ruining the spirit of the thing, and who is to blame for that?)
What i do not understand is why they need to get it from a clinic since they are legally allowed to grow themselves a few plants - except that truly ill and truly disabled patients might not have the energy or ability to tend a few plants or a garden, in which case there could be roving pot 'hospice' people who helped.
Eh, yeah, then there's the risk of being broken into and robbed - again, people ruin the spirit of the thing.
The whole thing is insane, all these convoluted strategies for people to 'get it.'
I just wonder if it were legal and the illegality of it wasn't so appealing, would people even care about it at all. There'd be a few aficionados, but not this worshipful class of 'we want it and you can't stop us children.'
Based on my programmed belief that prohibition tactics do not work, I move farther and farther into the 'legalize it' camp.
Then the rebels can get to work on the next thing they want legalized. Will it be meth? Peyote? Heroin? Airplane glue?
I'd also add that I don't care for the idea of the government dispensing it. (IND)
ReplyDeleteHere is a like to the US gov patent on it:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6630507/fulltext.html
============
As to what you said Rose:
"I understand the rationale, that they cannot just give it away to people who will than take it and sell it at the higher street price (yet another example of people ruining the spirit of the thing, and who is to blame for that?)"
======
anon responds:
That wss the EXACT thing that the one shop owner said as his reason to ask for 'price fixing' "People will re-sell it"
HMS's answer was "Our RN's case manager. HMS has been in business for almost 10 years, they just moved into the new location. Noone knew anything about them before, except the people they served, MD's, Hum Health, and verious support groups (HIV, Cancer, MS and so forth).
So HMS answer was "look we been doing this for years with no problem, you just don't sell to every Tom, Dick or Sally who has a recomendation from a MD who will write it for them at $120. You put them though a stringnat intake check with thier primary care MD and find out if their real or not."
Again this dosen't make peoople (other shops) happy, because they don't want to screen anyone.
All it takes is screening, an RN or two on staff to do it and you can be sure that people don't re-sell meds. if they depend on them. HMS has been giving away meds to sick for years with out any resale. "Funny" how when you got AIDS or cancer or MS type DX and a.) you depend on MMJ for releaf you don't "screw around" playing dealing games with free meds. b.) You tend not to play games at all - you kind of what to get close to GOD and a better way of life ...
Only people you got to watch out for are HIV/AIDS who got it threw IV use. Drug users tend to "play games" to the end. HMS make sure they have contact (thier RN / Case managers) with IV HIV/AIDS persons and any one with past drug problems AA/NA sponcer or councler. It all comes out in the intake.
Of course the normal shops don't want to deal with that and claim HMS doesn't have the right to do it, bla bla bla
=============
Rose also said:
"What i do not understand is why they need to get it from a clinic since they are legally allowed to grow themselves a few plants - except that truly ill and truly disabled patients might not have the energy or ability to tend a few plants or a garden, in which case there could be roving pot 'hospice' people who helped."
=======
Anon_ responds
Ever have Cancer, AIDS or MS Rose? that sort of BAD Dx?
You don't have the time or engery to plant a plant, grow it, hope its not stold.
Most of these people don't have the land, space to do this. Many are on tight fixed incoms. Also "out doors" it takes a season to grow a pot plant to finish.
Lets see I got a real good freind who just Dx-ed with Lymphoma. That was in April, they needed meds RIGHT NOW - not in 6 or 8 months! Nor had they the stringth or ablity to plant a plant. Hell this poor person couldn't get out of bed with out help, they were 10 weeks in getting strong enough do to the JUST the Biopsys to walk around the out side of their home.
So when you say "oh they can just grow it" - your not thinking of how bad "real" patients have it. Let alone that they need it "NOW" not in months when the crop comes in. Nor that many people don't have a place to grow out doors. Let alone that everyone that lives on the coast can't grow "out doors' because pot MOLDS on the coast. (Eureka, Arcata et al)
Okay so 'grow indoors'?
= a light is $300 and again where do you put it if your living on a fix income and sick?
Now I'm ONLY talking about REAL SICK people; not punk kids who get p215 from the MD's who write them for 120 and run a mill. I'm talking about REAL sick people who use MMJ as an ajunct therpy. Most of them I know of don't have the place, nor are they healthy enough to deal with growing it, nor they have the TIME - they need it when they start Chemo or what ever.
I know a person with MS who used to drive school bus for the county, now she can barly use her whell chair. I've watched her on Rx drugs, and she goes down hill. MMJ helps her greatly but she sure couldn't grow her own. She can barly get around, she lives in down town Eureka.
Another person this one one of the oldest AIDS people around, one of the frist Dx'ed. He does garden, lovely garden but lives in the middle of Arcata, how long would his plants (POT PLANTS) last if he grew there? As long as it took some kid to notice what he was growing, and then YOU would be on that person because they "let" the kids get it.
Anyway like I say Arcata can't produce out side - besides theft - even if it didn't get stold it would MOLD.
another person - got AIDS from a tranfusion has grandkids and is embaressed that they have AIDS and use MMJ for releaf. They live in a trailer park - how would they grow? Where?
There are about 300 to 400 people like this in Humboldt county. Case managed their no problem. the ones that make over $20,000 a year can pay enough to cover the price of growing it and a staff of case managers and staff to provide it.
-----
Rose wrote:
"more than just trying to sell the medical 215 sham?"
Anon_ responds:
HMS works on "COP" (cost of production) pricing. As far as do they "really"? Do the machinics who fix cars write down all the money they take in? HMS does - everything from every part of crop handling to transactions is on vidio. The owner got the idea by watching shows on how Casinos handel money because people asume they 'skim' - same with MMJ people asume its always some kind of "scam".
So between case managing with older retired RN's and everything on Vido cam_ recorded. I dobt anyone could find a hole in the system or anything to "btich" about - expect the other shops and grow house people
for a 'fun' time read what those people are saying about HMS, in the "Boycott the Arcata Eye" blog in the Tiimes Standard!
What you are describing is one ethical businessman/doctor who is doing his best to address the problems inherent in the 215 sham. Doing his best to truly serve sick people with honesty and integrity.
ReplyDeleteAnd you are right, to say that 'they can just grow their own' was flippant and inconsiderate, and thoughtless of me. But people I know who truly DO have a legitimate illness, (like MS), sure cannot afford the high price of the stuff and are more able to grow it than come up with the money for it.
If it is truly medicinal, it should be dispensed at Long's and Lima's and Henderson Center Pharmacy and Costco, not specialty boutiques with Orwellian titles.
I'll join you in applauding the one, but saying the others are a joke (my opinion.)
I guess for me it comes down to, if codeine is legal as a (prescription) medication, pot is far less powerful and ought to be as well.
I'm no fan of cigarettes, and I do equate pot with cigarettes and alcohol. Not really with 'medicine.' And definitely not with meth or heroin.
So what's the answer?
'Cause if the answer is Legalize It, then the next question is, what happens when all those illegal growers have to fork over the taxes, pay thier employees' benefits and withholdings, pay business licenses and fees, and make their facilities code compliant..... what happens? Will they do THAT willingly?
Rose said...
ReplyDeleteWhat you are describing is one ethical businessman/doctor who is doing his best to address the problems inherent in the 215 sham. Doing his best to truly serve sick people with honesty and integrity.
========
Yup that's what I'm saying. I understand (and please I maybe misquoting him) is the first time Eric walked into the first MMJ place he flipped out
I believe he uses this phrase:
"Not to compare myself with HIM but I may have felt like JESUS when he walked into the temple with the money changers - I could see all these healthy kids in line with REAL sick people, a woman in a wheel chair - a skinny sucked up guy (AIDS?) and some woman with a wig on (Cancer?) all stuck standing in line with a bunch of stoners and I thought "damn this is totally BS"
Eric was an OLD mom n' pop type grower - who got out of it - way back when some 20 years ago - and he saw the travesty that p215 was. That the people who YOU (if you did) VOTE FOR IT - for = really sick people were suffering at the hands of a bunch of dope dealing PUNKS! (again I'm talking for him - so I may be a bit off here)
I've heard the story enough though - anyway he tried from the inside - but the "kids' running the place said "Go away OLD MAN what do you know?"
This is a guy who’s ranch was just done a piece from Roger and knew those kind of people back in the day, so spoke with a few and opened a place across the street.
This was in 1999 - the place he walked into was HMCC the first 'club' in Arcata - he opened HPRC down the street - dropped prices in 1/2 and gave it away to REAL SICK people who made under 2x the poverty level (20K) a year. Hired a couple of RN's to do intakes, and an MSW for psych help for people in need. (terminal and catastrophic illness takes its mental toll too!)
Back then he was hated an flamed as being a "NARK." LTE pieces were in the paper saying that he had to be in league with 'the man' because he was selling so cheep. Also since he knew “old boys” he had to be in league with ‘the man’ hell he would talk to Terry Farmer and Denny Lewis about business plans and check with them on Op producers … so something had to be up … thing is that these so called “p215 people” (not talking about the real sick – just the users) know they are trying to pull the wool over peoples eyes so they just can’t make appointments with LEOs and talk to them.
He still gets flack about that from the so called ‘p215 activists’ and other shop owners and grow house people, because he’ll just walk into LEO’s offices and ask questions and talk to them like their normal people. Gets that “how can you just do that and tell them what your doing?”
He says “simple when your legal – and you TRULY make the PARADIGM shift – then you are – and everyone knows it”
HMCC closed about 3 months after HPRC opened - LEO's busted the "board of HMCC" and staff. Again Eric was blamed for all this, they couldn't take the blame them selves for having too many plants and no paper work to cover them other drugs and causing problems in there neighborhoods.
Back in 1999 the HMCC board thought it had 'cart-blanch' cause they were the only game in town - and APD ACC et al didn't want to look uncompassionate. Eric / HPRC ended that illusion.
Early in 2002 Eric THOUGHT his model was working well enough that he left HPRC in the hands of his social worker (An Navy vet and HSU masters in SW grad). What could go wrong with a Navy Vet HSU ADULT grad running the place - a fully working garden to support it - and RN's in place et al?
-- ahum – with in weeks sick people were being dropped (free poor AIDS, CANCER, MS people) and the doors of HPRC were opened to everyone like any of the ‘pot clubs’
Eric had relinquished all rights to the place – so there was little he could do. He did set up privet care giving out of his home, a small home grow and home deliveries to the sick people calling him asking him “what happened?”
By 2003 he was part of the BOS MMJ TF – and was asking for lower limits so that people would have to at least caregive some sick people – if they were going to grow. He asked for many other things – electrical inspections, labor laws et al – but was told that that wasn’t part of the scope of what was being dealt with.
LEO’s did NOT deal in good faith, Eric (as I’ve said before) got the ‘activist’ group down to the old Terry Farmer / Mel Brown 10 guidelines – but LEO’s said they never agreed to those. This was shown to be a lie, with presentation of the copy of the Times Standard where all LEO’s agreed with the Terry guideline. LEO’s stopped attending meetings after that - so Humboldt got its 100 sq ft – with out even he 1500 watts that GAG had put in.
Darning that time – the Humboldt Drug Task force dropped by his home and took a look at what he was doing and said, “sorry to bother you we just don’t see real ones that often, didn’t you have that shop? You need to look at opening up again you did it right”
So in 2004 Eric rented a shop and hired crew and from then until just lately he’s been providing free and low cost meds with out any one knowing, no negative impact on society paying taxes, workman’s comp and so forth. AND NO ONE KNEW – he and his were so low profile.
Then in 2006 he was asked by the State Board of RN’s to look at becoming a training faculty for them to teach interns about MMJ administration and such. The problem was he didn’t have the office space, so the staff went looking for such space and found it in the middle of Arcata.
From late 2006 to current HMS has worked ‘intimately’ (their word not ours) with the city of Arcata to put in a full service clinical MMJ shop, clearing zoning, planning, building fire and PD. Unfortunally one of the other shops was hit with code violations and the subsequent ruling by Planco supposedly affected HMS permits. But that is another story you and everyone else will be BLOGING about tomorrow – I assume.
Anyway – that’s the genesis of how HMS and Eric came to MMJ and why … it was just so upsetting to see something as nice as legal MMJ being treated so shoddy. Eric says “if LEO’s and the public are willing to go as far as to legalize it medically and it REALLY helps sick people, the least WE can do is step up to the plate and give them what they want, a fully legit operation.”
And Yup from where I sit also – those are few and far between – if any besides HMS. But then I’m told HMS is doing it wrong and illegal – because you can’t ‘discriminate’ against health young people who want to buy pot with their Rec’s from Doc Feel good for $120 and no primary care MD seen ever!
Rose goes on to say
And you are right, to say that 'they can just grow their own' was flippant and inconsiderate, and thoughtless of me. But people I know who truly DO have a legitimate illness, (like MS), sure cannot afford the high price of the stuff and are more able to grow it than come up with the money for it.
Yup exactly that’s why HMS has the lowest prices based upon “COP” (cost of production) and working on lowering them also has a HUGE give away program for people under $20K a year per 2x poverty level. HMS was going to lower the prices even more, but the city suddenly is playing games with them. So the huge investment HMS put into its grow area – is laying fallow – so they can’t drop prices right now – and are hard put to even make it. STAFF is not taking payroll and putting their own money into helping make payments; due to the situation with the city.
It’s always been HMS goal to meet the voters will of p215 “Safe and affordable” these words are right in the wording of p215 … and what we see out there certainly isn’t. The only way to get prices down is to control production (of course). And of course wanting to drop prices makes many many enemies with in the ‘activists’. (read the T-S blog on “Boycott the Arcata Eye” yet Rose? – says Eric has sex with farm animals and Nuns also robs poor boxes to bribe politicians. It’s amazing! And pretty funny when you consider that his only push is to lower prices. Kind of lets you know where all these people are really at – like I say one shop owner petioned the Arcata City Council to Fix Prices! (compassion where is your sting = p215)
Rose goes on to say
If it is truly medicinal, it should be dispensed at Long's and Lima's and Henderson Center Pharmacy and Costco, not specialty boutiques with Orwellian titles.
Hay you left out my buddies at CLONY”S!!!
Yup but its not – that’s why I mentioned the US Gov IND program – Canada and also the Netherlands BOTH have programs that dispense MMJ through their pharmacies.
Problem is, and you libertarians and small gov_ people are going to love this – and probably can see it coming: PRIVET SECTOR can produce at 1/2 to 1/4 the price and looks like even less! Think of the $7,000 dollar hammer – do you think gov. can do better then privet industry with MJ?
Since its just you and me talking here (chuckle) Rose – I CAN tell YOU that I think this is what Eric has in mind as a long term goal. Eg to set up a model and production and prices. (case managed and low cost even get medi-cal on board) to the point where ANYONE would ‘buy’ it – the model – and take the 10% “market share” that are the TRULY SICK people – and provide for them. Some kind of state contract for catastrophic people only type thing. Then let the cards fall where they may with the other shops. Ie if the public and LEO’s are fine with one place that is low cost with RN’s doing the intake, and free to the poor and needed and down the street another or 10 that are ‘different’ serving a different clientele and charging much more for their meds – so be it – on the other hand … if … then so be it …
Rose goes on to say
I'll join you in applauding the one, but saying the others are a joke (my opinion.)
Mine too – of course – that’s what makes a horse race. They think HMS is a Joke or out to ‘ruin things’ for all of them. Hay its like getting the highest grade in a class, sure you screw up the curve, but on the other hand are you looking to impress the others in class or you looking to learn and bring up YOUR average??? Also its just business – they could all come up to the same standard – reorganize their programs bla bla bla – but then they couldn’t be making $’s hand over fist either if they did it the HMS way!
Rose goes on to say
I guess for me it comes down to, if codeine is legal as a (prescription) medication, pot is far less powerful and ought to be as well.
I'm no fan of cigarettes, and I do equate pot with cigarettes and alcohol. Not really with 'medicine.' And definitely not with meth or heroin.
So what's the answer?
You say it in your next line – so we’ll just skip down to there ….
Rose goes on to say
'Cause if the answer is Legalize It, then the next question is, what happens when all those illegal growers have to fork over the taxes, pay their employees' benefits and withholdings, pay business licenses and fees, and make their facilities code compliant..... what happens? Will they do THAT willingly?
Was Capon? NOPE – he wasn’t willing to go legal, pay taxes fees go code compliant et al bene’s for his employs neither was Kennedy (he just dropped out – went ligit in other area’s)
What it took was ONE MAN SAM BRONFMAN to become Legal and do it ‘right’ and drop the prices and take care of his employees (Mr Sam B was the first to do a lunch program for his people)
One man paid taxes WORKED WITH the CODE enforcement people, oh he drove hard bargains like any good business man but as prices dropped all of a sudden it wasn’t worth while for the BOOTLEGGERS to do what they did any more.
Heck Humboldt used to have ‘shine’ made in the hills – go read up in the Humboldt Historical Society – just as ‘bad’ as the pot growers or even worst!
I’d recommend (as I did in another post – the no wifi one) that anyone interested on how to move from “Bootlegger” to Legalization read this book: "KING OF THE CASTLE, THE MAKING OF A DYNASTY: SEAGRAM'S AND THE BRONFMAN EMPIRE." By Peter C. Newman. New York, Atheneum, 1979. Pp. vii + 304. $11.95.
I guess it didn’t sell well because there are a bunch of old copies on the web AND INEXPENSIVE TOO! – just type it into Google:
king of the castle Seagram
Anyway it only took “one man” to ‘do it right’ and the rest of it all crumbled into what we have today. I don’t know where to get BOOTLEG alcohol do you? But pot just ask anyone (cept Rose!)
Right now we are already experiencing some of this. I have noticed since the raids last week that people (normal) are talking about the difference between tax paying, licensing having legal medical dispensaries and the “folks out in the hills and with grow houses.”
If you want something LEGAL then you have to accept something as a MODEL of that legality and go “that is OKAY and the rest aren’t.” We’re beginning to see this with the dispensaries. No matter “how bad” you may feel they are, at least they pay taxes and licenses and meet with city hall and PD and all the “powers that be” they are not hiding.
I’m not defending some (most) of their actions I’m just saying that in fact they are more like a normal business then anything ‘in the hills or a grow house’ who don’t pay taxes have a licnance or do anything remotely like a normal business. Where the dispecneries are trying.
Right now (for instance) the city of Arcata is implanting code compliance. They are working with the dispensaries to find mechanisms so that the dispensaries (the ones that buy from out side people) will find ways to monitor that who they buy from are legal permitted (code/city compliant) persons vs. just grow house owners.
Again it’s a start.
As to “big business” taking it over. We’ve seen attempts at that – and it is always said “Do you really think that the people who market cancer (cigarettes) to kids are going to drop the prices?”
Health Canada marks up there MMJ by 1,500% what the heck do you think tobacco will do?
Pharmacies companies? Drop the price? Not bloody likely “Setivx” a spray with one joints worth of pot in it – costs $125 and it tastes horrible and you have to use most of the bottle to get any pain, nausea relief from it. Marional is like $30 a pill for one dose.
The worst street dealer can beat these guys – so I say don’t look to Big Pharm or Tobacco companies to drop prices. Prices only will come down if privet party drops them. Is HMS, Eric that person? I don’t know but I’m sure we’ll see. He’s already at 1/2 to 1/10th of anything out there – factoring in HMS’s give away program. And they aren’t in full production yet!
I appreciate the support and kind words from Rose and others who made comments. Thank you - Eric, Humboldt Grow
ReplyDeleteIf marijuana were ever to become legal, I do believe that market forces would create an environment where legal companies would thrive and any illegal activity would cease to exist. If I were to grow grapes and make some wine without the proper licensing and inspections, how successful would I be? Would I be able to access the mainstream, profitable distribution chains? My guess is no. I have realized that legalizing marijuana is only half the debate. How marijuana would be distributed if it were legalized for recreational use, is just as important a question.
ReplyDeleteIf you look at the beer and wine markets, they are very segmented with a handful of large companies and hundreds of smaller craft/specialty beer and wine makers. The smaller independent breweries, grape growers, and winemakers are taxed, regulated, yet still remain profitable. I hope that if marijuana legalization ever occurred that it would follow the same model as beer and wine.
ReplyDeleteGood questions, Eric, and I think you are right about the beer and wine market model.
ReplyDeleteIf you would like people to follow your name as a link to your blog, put your url in instead of mine, your name will then become a live link to YOUR site.
Here's a link to Eric's site humboldtgrow.wordpress.com, and it looks like you can contact him at humboldtgrow @ gmail.com.
ReplyDeletethanks for the tip Rose.
ReplyDeleteBut calling these things "Wellness Dispensaries" is offensive, I'm sorry.
ReplyDeleteIsn't that borrowed from the Kellog's cereal guy (Mr. Kellog)?