that once Pacific Lumber was beaten, a new target would be front and center. Read Scott Greacen's carefully prepared list of gripes - talking points - against SPI. Sierra Pacific no answer for Pacific Lumber's ills It's quite a litany. Seems SPI doesn't roll over and do what they are told the way Scott would like. And, of course, SPI has pretty deep pockets. The battle will never end. The attacks will never cease.
All of you wonder why there is still war in the world. This is why. Somebody wants to tell someone else what to do. If they do, then it gets worse.
Standing against monopolistic price controls, total forest habitat destruction and stream degradation is hardly the ingredient for a shooting war. A good case is made for selection cutting that increases long term volume, maintains forest habitat, and projects logging industry jobs into the future. Good article. Informative. Thanks for linking to it.
ReplyDeleteOh, let's not pretend you want logging in the future.
ReplyDeleteLet's not pretend you care about anything except short term profit.
ReplyDeleteNo logging, no fishing, no harbor, no jobs, no big stores, no walking off the trails, no dogs, no cats, no crab, no train, no this, no that, no no no no no... you have the most negative message that's ever been heard.
ReplyDeleteYou wouldn't care a rat's ass about SPI if they didn't have money. There's your short term profit, your very own issue.
Jees Rose...
ReplyDeleteThe out patient anon's are out in force tonight
So who's going be the next Palco for this crowd who so dearly need crisis and uninformed arguments to justify some wannabe manifest destiny?
No logging unless it destroys forest and stream habitat, so, no fishing either. No logging due to lack of salable trees. Liquidate forest for short term profit - just say yes. As for the rest of your tantrum - just grow up.
ReplyDeleteNo logging unless it destroys forest and stream habitat Huh? Been drinking while blogging?
ReplyDeleteI think the many foresters who work with and for the logging companies these days would surely string you up for that one.
It's ok, bub, you'll get to live in your plastic house - except uh oh, plastics offgas, and there's all these not so environmentally friendly things about them, too...
Is that what you call a Freudian slip?
ReplyDeleteJeezz,if you guys are gonna start talking about filth like Scott(I just gotta sue you if you have something).I'm gonna go over to an honest porn sight.
ReplyDeleteYes, Rose, we do ask so much from our natural environment that supports 6.6 billion people. We will be goners if we continue to exploit it for short term profit. Denial serves the purpose of short term profiteers - not the multi-generational working families that have depended on a forest based income. The over harvest of trees serves no good purpose. Creating subdivisions in clearcuts will not enhance timber production. You argue for the corporation, never for workers.
ReplyDeleteDo you have any cognizance of the number of jobs that have been lost? Don't tell me you're for the workers. That's pure BS.
ReplyDeletenot the multi-generational working families that have depended on a forest based income. - ahh, yes, that's why there were so many old growth redwoods left, because those multi-generational families were husbanding the trees. No. They weren't.
Change was needed, and change came. You started with some good points and you won, but once you won, you didn't stop, that's when the shift occurred and it became about profit and power for you.
Money from controversy. Money from keeping the shit flowing, and money from lawsuits.
Don't pretend you care about the workers now. You're not fooling them.
You became what you hate. YOu are now the corruption you once railed against.
How about no Rose?
ReplyDeleteWhy were those jobs lost? Because the forests were over harvested. Why wouldn't concerned citizens organize and battle a self-serving out of state corporation in the courts? Money for legal defense for an already over-harvested timberland and suffering watersheds. And you just hate them for it. The workers situation were at the mercy of a corporate raider. Twist the facts with all your might, Rose. The fight was to protect what you wish to destroy, forever.We have become what you hate. Corruption of the truth is your forte. You always side with corporations and not the workers.
ReplyDeleteHow about no Socialist Slim Scott or no 10:46. Both phony self promoting fools.
ReplyDeleteRose is right on this one as enviros are total hypocrites when it comes to environmental protection and Palco.
ReplyDeleteBy concentrating ALL the available environmental protection energy against Palco for decades they are now responsible for all the stream and wildlife degradation that has occurred all throughout the homestead subdivisions because no enviros were complaining. The Mattole is toast because of EF!, EPIC, HWC, etc, making plays for headlines in order to fund themselves and make career advancement, Humboldt watersheds be damned in the process.
Then, to top it off, the ONLY Palco buy out plan that insured all old growth trees would be protected forever was politically ATTACKED by these same selfish narrow-minded holier-than-thou enviros using the same anti-corporate crap listed here and everywhere they go as COVER, as EXCUSE, for being stupid environmental protectors. The Mattole fish flopping around in mud instead of water do not appreciate such hypocrites.
The only Palco buy out plan came a little too late and didn't have backing by the Bear River Tribe. You are as guilty as the enviros that you call hypocrites for putting one hundred percent of your effort into homestead environmental degradation. Your claim that clearcutting and total devastation of forest habitat is not responsible for stream degradation is specious and reveals your hateful soul. Your well known support for corporate raiders leaves you morally destitute. The Mattole is toast because of over cutting which you have always supported, Stephen.
ReplyDeleteDamn Rose, he woke up early today. Same old ya ya shit. Party line progey's. Those this one is a true believer, of course he is an anon but I believe u know who it is by his statements.
ReplyDeleteI hope their happy with all the grief they have cause to the local people.
No logging, no fishing, no harbor, no jobs, no big stores, no walking off the trails, no dogs, no cats, no crab, no train, no this, no that, no no no no no... you have the most negative message that's ever been heard.
ReplyDeleteBike trails. We want bike trails.
And piroshkis.
What grief, devalued over cut timberlands? You can't face the truth so scapegoat those that organized for legal defense of what was left. Now you want to subdivide and pave it over. You cry for big box stores that sell cheap Chinese crap that used to be made in America when quality was more important than cheap prices. Made in America used to stand for American workmanship that was provided by the middle class which Rose and Stephen choose to side against by always siding with Corporate destruction of natural resources and the liquidation of worker's assets. You two are the devil's disciples and were always the vainglorious tools of Charles Hurwitz/Maxxam. And now you are howling like the minions for further environmental destruction as you pathetically grasp for the chance to represent Sierra Pacific. You two exotic Kluknarc warriors are just a couple of Corporate blowhards without a paycheck. And you have no souls.
ReplyDeleteYou're pathetic, anon 5:21, with your blatant lies about what I say or don't say. Show me anywhere at anytime where I've advocated "clearcutting and total devastation of forest habitat"? You just sling your blind eye anti-corporate rhetoric that is so lame now as to only point up the lack of true environmental awareness and concern of so-called "forest defenders". EPA studies of the Mattole and S.Fork of the Eel River back me up and everyone now knows how badly the Mattole is suffering from HOMESTEADERS over-drawing of water. And everyone knows about the diesel spills homesteaders are contributing to our creeks on a regular basis practically now.
ReplyDeleteSo please, don't try shoving that enviro crap down our throats. It's passe, history, and marks only the ability of activists to blind themselves to environmental reality with political agendas.
Bear River did back the Heartlands plan, backed it for almost three years. Yes, the current tribal council doesn't back it, never did, but that only reflects tribal politics, not anything about the Heartlands Project, or the members of the Bear River tribe who worked for years on it along with me.
At least our consciences won't have the guilt of knowing that white people, enviro activist white people like Darryl Cherney, like Ken Miller, like Bob Martel, like Julia Butterfly, each of which contributed to the modern silent genocide of Native tribes by blocking Bear River's Heartlands Project to recover Bear River ancestral lands held by Palco.
If our Heartlands Reorganization Plan had gotten the current Bear River Tribal Council's backing (which actually it did get--for about three days last March until a powerful elder's political manipulations scotched the deal--tribal politics) Palco workers would be ADDED to Palco's current work-force instead of losing still more to lack of work.
ReplyDeleteEnviros are just insane now in their schizophrenic support of one corporate capitalist super-richie vs. another corporate capitalist super-richie. Instead of backing LOCAL people, and local solutions, we've got EPIC backing another corporate rip-off of Humboldt County. I mean, doesn't anyone see that all the Fisher's really wanted was to add Palco's redwood tree inventory to their Mendocino stock so that this ONE FAMILY controls all commercial redwoods in the world. This plan, EPIC and enviros back. Get real, you guys are out of your trees on this one with gross inability to fathom the logical outcome of your own political acts against the Humboldt community.
10:16 is ranting again...
ReplyDeleteIt is you who have no soul 10:16 - just a mindless rant of "corporate destruction" and how badly you hate WalMart. Get some new material, we are on to you and to be frank have exposed you to be really a small minded little drone.
Face it - we don't agree with your assessment of America.
And for you to say "Corporate destruction of natural resources and the liquidation of worker's assets" makes you sound like a nutter who needs medication. Well, I say take your meds, you evidently are out of your gourd.
Yup, Environmental activist white people blocked a sovereign nation, the Bear River Tribe's Heartland Project from recovering their ancestral lands from corporate raider , Charles Hurwitz. Tell us how you get your prophetic visions, Stephen. Does it entail the use of sacramental, psychotropic drugs and staring into the sun for three days? Why does this male feral cat stink accompany your dream think? You and Rose stand tooth by jowl with corporate pillage of local resources by means of short term profit and against a solid economic base that would have supported generations if those resources had been used responsibly.
ReplyDeleteAnon 10:43's remarks just show how a political agenda creates blindness in its advocates. It never strikes home in the enviro brain that Steve Lewis worked for over 13 years on REMOVING Maxxam's ownership of Palco. What did enviros do to remove that ownership?
ReplyDeleteNada. Zip. Just threw more demonstrations, tree-sits and lawsuits to get public recognition for upwardly-mobile career activists for practically zero environmental protection accomplishment. Instead of a wall of words against Maxxam, at least I acted to do something concrete to get Maxxam out of Humboldt County. And enviros try to blame me for this!
And you failed. You failed because big, bad Julia Butterfly, or was it Ken Miller, no wait, EPIC, ...em, white environmental activists blocked the Bear River Tribe from reclaiming their ancestral lands. Damned upwardly mobile career activists! Maybe it is time to go on another vision quest, Stephen. Or, perhaps it is time for you to sacrifice the last sacred white buffalo on your altar to corporate servitude and environmental destruction. Make sure you save some to feed your all consuming ego. Oh, how you grasp for glory.
ReplyDeleteDon't I though. I'm always doing anything to hit the headlines with my activist work 'cause I'm such a glory hound. I sit in trees, I launch lawsuit after lawsuit, I create phony orgs right and left to obscure my funding sources, I get in cozy with the DA to do my dirty work for me, yessir, I am such a badass..if that were me. But it isn't is it? It's your enviro leader activist m.o. but not mine.
ReplyDeleteBear River tribal members know what enviros have done to them. Perhaps that explains why there is such animosity by the great majority of local tribal peoples against enviros.
Stephen:
ReplyDeleteI read the following on your site in describing the Heartlands Project. When you write so disparagingly of old growth forests, of course the rest of the enviro community is going to question your credibility. Young forests are exactly what Maxxam and Hurwitz wanted and it would have been a disaster if they were allowed to keep running the company. Whether or not Mendo. Redwood co. are the eco saviors of Humboldt county we will have to see. But the fact that just about everyone that's fought Hurwitz's plunder of Palco is behind the MRC plan convinces me that Judge Schmidt made the right call.
Rex Frankel, http://rare-earth-news.blogspot.com
"…Operating under a "politically correct" anti-corporate bias which suppresses any environmental information that financially benefits the timber industry, environmental activists have completely ignored the Global Warming factor in temperate forest management. Thus fast harvesting schedules and clearcuts are almost always condemned by environmental activists in favor of old growth management and greatly reduced logging of any sort. This forest management policy is not environmentally sound for our 21st Century atmospheric conditions that must guide our present forest management policies. It is established fact that young forests with proportionately more green leaf foliage area produce and release more oxygen into the atmosphere and bind more carbon dioxide into woody tissue through photosynthesis than do old growth forests."
from http://heartlandsproject.blogspot.com/
rex, you got a problem with forest ecology and historical facts?
ReplyDeleteRex, FACT: young forests are doing the lion's share of carbon scrubbing from our atmosphere here in the Northern Hemisphere. Not old-growth.
ReplyDeleteWhat you are conveniently forgetting for your attempt to continue the enviro slander of my work, is that ONLY our Heartlands Plan called for Zero cutting of old growth. In fact, because the tribe has the ability to do so, each and every old growth tree on PL lands would have been protected forever as sacred sites. I'm proud of the Bear River Timber Management Plan I created for the Heartlands Project. Yes, it's a broad general outline plan and not broken down watershed by watershed because the plan called for years of extensive forest inventory study before anything was done. It is still a damn good fully sustainable forestry model for MRC or any large tract timber owner to follow. And of course, the diversification of Palco our Heartlands plan called for would create hundreds of more Palco jobs instead of what MRC's doing because they were only in it for the redwood land. I just bet you most of Humboldt's redwood trees end up in Ukiah's mill. Steve Wills will do good but all other Palco workers and Humboldt County's economy will take another big hit.
make that "most of Humboldt Redwood Company's redwoods end up in Ukiah's mill".
ReplyDeleteThe problem with your logic, Stephen, is that "carbon scrubbing" isn't the only issue. There are many species, such as the now infamous spotted owl, that can only survive in old-growth forests. Old-growth and second-growth forests are essentially different ecosystems! Certainly you understand that much about basic forestry, don't you?
ReplyDeleteSo if you cut every last bit of Palco old growth, measurable atmospheric carbon dioxide is going to trend back towards pre-industrial levels? Well, someone has a problem with forest ecology and historical facts - and how to apply them. Really, Stephen, you support fast harvesting schedules and clearcuts? What percentage of remaining old growth redwood groves would you leave standing? Sounds to me as if you would liquidate all remaining groves using global warming as your straw man. Think I will retain my anti-corporate bias and add Heartlands to my "anti-this, anti-that" file.
ReplyDeleteMaybe you could put your brain in jar on the shelf beside that file as well since it's stopped working. Read your own words and read mine. What did I just write about saving every last old growth tree on PL lands? READ! next time.
ReplyDeleteStephen, it is impossible to have a discussion with people who think that if you question EPIC, if you are not a "member" of some little "environmental" attack group, if you do not pay homage and swear fealty, you do not care about the environment, you want to clear cut the entire nation and you have no appreciation of nature.
ReplyDeleteThey are unable to comprehend - or refuse to acknowledge and respect that real people do care about forests and trees and water and fields, and butterflies, and geese, and all of those things... WITHOUT paying homage and swearing fealty to the predatory litigious orgs.
They refuse to allow any questioning because any questions get in the way of their mission.
They want you to sit down and be quiet.
They do not want anyone pointing out that their using the public judicial system as a weapon, using an elected official to (attempt to) do their dirty work is wrong, and corrupt.
They do not want to talk about the damage done by homesteaders because, as you correctly point out, there is no money in that. No heartfelt pleas for money to fix that problem. No huge cash cow there.
And they are never satisfied for that very reason. Once the timber companies instituted sustainable practices, hired foresters for guidance, in short, once they had been invited in and welcomed to the table, and you would think their goals were accomplished, they did not fold up their tents. They moved the bar. each and every time. Because to do otherwise would mean they were out of a job. The money train would dry up.
The fullness of time shows them for what they are. A predatory litigious group of people. With full cadres of lawyers. Willing to buy politicians and pretend they aren't just as bad as any backwoods southern stereotype - just as evil as anything that ever existed in the political landscaper of this country and just as cynical.
And now, more dangerous to every single person who wants to actually just go out and enjoy nature - because now ordinary people are the enemy who has to be stopped.
Anonymous: Over logged my toe. The first time there were "no more trees" about 40 years ago is when some rope smokin' idiot came up here, liked it here, and decided since it was cool here to move here, and then after being welcomed by our friendly trust everyone (not anymore) locals (as in BORN HERE), the idiot/s decided to try to tell everyone else how to live.
ReplyDeleteAlot of hard working families had to leave the area back then due to lost jobs on account of MORONS. Yep - you read me right you self righteous socialistic megalomaniacs. Try feeding your family on PLASTIC.
We could just ask you to move, or move to Mountain Lion territory and leave you there with no food and see if you know the difference between a pine tree and poison oak - or worse...
But some of us pray that some day you will GROW UP and live and let live, mind your own damn business, and become a valuable member of the community.
If not, well, there's always a one way ticket available to Siberia.
Lot's of trees there to sit in..
ReplyDelete:) No money, though.
ReplyDeleteYou posted while I was typing my comment, Stephen. I didn't read your comment until after I posted mine.
ReplyDeleteBut, we're off topic. Timberlands have been over cut. Fast harvest rotations leaves you with pecker poles. Imported lumber has depressed prices, and people have lost jobs. In 1989 the California Attorney Generals Office stopped representing CDF because the agency was - and still is - routinely approving illegal timber harvest plans. Major clearcutters could not operate if the state of California enforced the following: The State Forests Practices Act, The California Environmental Quality Act, The Clean Water Act, The Endangered Species Act. CDF has turned a blind eye. And logging companies only care about their bottom line. Those environmental acts are laws that were written to protect citizens from corporate over reach. If it takes a grassroots environmental organization such as EPIC to hold CDF's and commercial logger's feet to the fire to make them follow the law, then, all power to them.
7:52 The truth is that Californias forests are growing more wood than is harvested and spotted owls absolutely do NOT need old growth to live. Spotted owls (NSO) do better when there is a variety of forest habitats bacause they require food (foraging habitat), dipsersal habitat, as well as nesting habitat. In California NSO commonly nest in platforms on the branches of second growth trees and in oaks and do not require old growth.
ReplyDeleteThe truth is we are not overcutting, we are over regulating.
Scott Grecean posted on the TS message board an appeal of a logging project on the six rivers national forest. I read it and found out that the allowable sale quantity on that forest is a paltry 15 million board feet. Almost a million acres on that national forest and yet they are only allowed to produce enough timber for a two week run at a typical small log mill. Pathetic
Rose,
ReplyDeleteDo you believe that Mendocino Redwood will be a future asset to the community? And please don't just comment about how they'll be the new scapegoat for enviromentalists- please simply tell us what you think Mendo Redwood will bring to the table.
You're gonna tell me what I can and can't say? I don't think so.
ReplyDeleteSpotted owls will attempt to nest in the wheel of a log skidder if it has no other choice.
ReplyDeleteAlmost a million acres in the Six Rivers National Forest. Would the 15 million board feet come from a selection cut? I wonder why CDF set the allowable sale quantity that low.
Now don't be petulant, Rose.
ReplyDeleteI on;y said that because I don't just want to hear another sob story about how Palco was screwed over by greedy enviromentalists. the Mendo purchase is basically a done deal. I just want to know if you see any benefits in this new relationship for our community? Can this be a good thing, in your opinion?
ReplyDeleteIs that fair?
Fair enough.
ReplyDeleteI've already said, I believe, that I think the MRC deal is a good thing. It seems everyone is in agreement, which bodes well for the future, and if nothing else, with Hurwitz gone, in theory, some of the vitriol should dissipate.
Do I think it is perfect? No. Nothing ever is. As it should be. But they seem to have a good reputation and a decent plan. I suspect they will let the timber sit for quite a long time if they aren't forced into cutting to pay off debt.
Do I think there are "any benefits in this new relationship for our community?" I think that is a strangely worded question. What do you mean by it? Why do you use the word relationship?
Can you guess what two-faced phony fucker named Scott I saw at COSTCO? What anti-corp Arcata nut named Dave shopping at K-Mart? By God,lets hope no logger buys a can of Bud.
ReplyDeleteThis typifies the enviro rant that they believe justifies 20 years of misdirecting all environmental protection against Pacific Lumber Company.
ReplyDelete"But, we're off topic. Timberlands have been over cut. Fast harvest rotations leaves you with pecker poles. Imported lumber has depressed prices, and people have lost jobs. In 1989 the California Attorney Generals Office stopped representing CDF because the agency was - and still is - routinely approving illegal timber harvest plans. Major clearcutters could not operate if the state of California enforced the following: The State Forests Practices Act, The California Environmental Quality Act, The Clean Water Act, The Endangered Species Act. CDF has turned a blind eye. And logging companies only care about their bottom line. Those environmental acts are laws that were written to protect citizens from corporate over reach. If it takes a grassroots environmental organization such as EPIC to hold CDF's and commercial logger's feet to the fire to make them follow the law, then, all power to them."
Meanwhile, the Mattole dries up because these environmental frauds have let their money people, homesteaders, off SCOTT free--no protests of homestead eco-damage EVER--no lawsuits of homesteaders by EPIC EVER. This is why I continue to call enviros frauds because they are. They've let anti-corporate politics completely blind them to real local ecodamage that they are now responsible for--because they take money from these people and still do. EPIC just recently had another fundraiser for homesteaders to contribute money to EPIC. To me, this is the worst sort of hypocrisy because there is no doubt at all that by misdirecting environmental protection energy away from homestead subdivision development, Humboldt watersheds and wildlife have all suffered immense damage.
And what has EPIC suffered while loggers have paid the price? Nothing. EPIC's annual budget just gets bigger. Was up to a half-million a decade ago. Enough there to run "Heraldo"...
ReplyDeleteSome of the same people who are screaming about EPIC supposed misdirection are howling about County Commissioners trying to bring Humboldt County back in line with state TPZ guidelines. Oh my.
ReplyDeleteOf course the loggers are suffering in part because of free trade treaties that Wall Street Lobbyists have pushed through Congress. American timber industry now has to compete with foreign timber and depressed prices. We have been told that American workers must retrain so that they can have jobs. Perhaps 10:55 PM can be trained for a career in customer service at Walmart.
You are going to have to develop people friendly skills if you want to survive in this "new economy", Stephen. There are no job openings for exotic Kluknarc warriors. So, come on, get up, be happy! Put on a smiley face!
ReplyDelete"Enough there to run "Heraldo""...
ReplyDeleteIndeed! Enough to pay two shifts of paid liberals to man a bank of twelve computers. The pay is good and the benefits are wonderful. We get free health insurance, free child care, and discounts on Heraldo's name brand clothing. What are you doing help the local economy, Stephen? Stop being a sour puss. Come on! Get up! Be happy! Put on a smiley face!
This just in:
ReplyDeleteHeraldo is going to field a local baseball team. We have named our new team the "Arkleyville Slammers!". Be on the look-out for American made, Heraldo brand, "Slammers!" sports wear coming soon.
Yes, I also saw baykeeper,bay steward,anti everything Maggie H. with a huge load at Costco. Do as I say not as I do.
ReplyDeleteOk, my smiley face:
ReplyDeleteEvertink iss bootiful..in it's oy vey..oh, evertink iss bootiful..in it's oy vey..
Rose and all my friends will tell you that the Steve Lewis you see in print is the fierce side of me while my friends bask in my warm and easy-going religious mania.
Here's where these enviro frauds, activists,leeches,call them whatever you like, fall down in their sales pitch. It's not an us or them,good guy bad guy,lib or conservative issue. We can have a good economy,an active harbor and great habitat protection. The district has strived for this. Do not allow the red herring of the scary railroad to even enter into the equation. There are many good balanced enviromentalists who understand this too. Dennis Hunter a conservative was the biggest supporter of Mr. Robinsons enviromental programs on the bay while also looking for good economic fits. The radical wings of EPIC or baykeeper can only spin that or lie about it straight out. When they do they deminish themselves and our efforts to support a balanced community and bay. Individuals need to think for themselves and stand up aganist the new threat to our communities. Anti-everythingism run amuck.
ReplyDeleteVery true, Stephen. :)
ReplyDeleteAnd, yes, 11;45 - why is it that simple truths like the Commissioners love and support of Robinson and the very forward thinking approach they had going gets smeared and denigrated in the "Progressive" quest for power?
When people who served on the Harbor Commission for the love of the Harbor and the Marinas and the wharfs, with no acclaim, and none asked...for years they have served quietly.
Now the radical side of the community has decided that is a great way to muscle in and wrest control from "the good old boys" - and the very real business of the Harbor Commission is getting thrown aside by those whose agenda is bigger than all that mundane reality.
I'm for peroshkis and beer. Now that is balance. Anti-everythingism is just total fucked-upededness. But, the movement for everythingism has to be balanced by a counter-movement of anti-everythingism. You can't have your ying without your yang. You can't have your culture without your counter-culture. You sure can't put tobacco and anti-tobacco in the same pipe and smoke it, without puting yourself - and the pipe - in a state of total everlasting fucked-upededness. Balance is good.
ReplyDeleteAnd there you have it. Life is really a dance, a balancing act of movement through the piles of of of maligned organic benefactors of all humankind. Is this a koan by any chance like Haiku is Ukiah spelled backwards?
ReplyDeleteHave you acquired sudden intuitive enlightenment? Maybe it's a koan.
ReplyDelete