Thursday, March 05, 2009


h/t: backyardconservative

Headlines on Drudge 3/6
Jobless rate 8.1%... Developing...
Payrolls fall 651,000...
GM shares hit lowest point in 75 years...
Record 31.8 million on food stamps
Top House Republican Calls for Spending Freeze...
White House Seeks Economic Advice From 'Twitter' co-founder...

Kinda says it all

WIRE: 'Obama Bear Market' Punishes Investors as Dow Tumbles 20%...
WSJ: Obama's Radicalism Is Killing the Dow... The illusion that Barack Obama will lead from the economic center has quickly come to an end


  1. If President Obama could give a speech without teleprompters?

    Our president is is an eloquent speaker, or reader. I'd like to see if he can talk on his own, think on his feet?

    Just last week I was thinking about Govt spending. Specifically how much did it cost for Obama to fly to Chicago on Valentines day so his wife could go to their favorite restaurant? The Secret Service advance team, the security detail, the jet with the limo and armoured up suburbans?

    "Yes We Can" ??????

  2. You read Mark Morford yesterday Rose? Good stuff!

    "I see you out there. I know you're lurking, seething, sending me angry letters, posting nasty comments in anonymous forums across the Interweb, not merely enraged that I and millions like me dare to support President Obama's massive overhaul of the enormously flawed American idea, but that I also dare to see him as exactly the finest and most intelligent and, yes, even integrity-filled progressive visionary we could possibly hope for at a time like this.
    You are fuming in disbelief. How can I not see it? How can the vast majority of the country not see it? How is it that no one but you and a few manic fringe writers seem to notice that President Obama is either A) a thinly veiled socialist commie instigator hell-bent on destroying America from the inside out, or B) nothing more than a cleverly disguised corporate-loving Bush clone because, oh my God, haven't you seen his policy on H1Bs and faith-based initiatives and his nefarious plan to take over the banks and, um, something else you can't quite remember right now but you're sure is really, really damning?

    You are slamming your fists on your keyboard. Why doesn't the world get it? That it's all just the same old cronies rearranging the same old powermad furniture, a giant shell game Decepticon robot evil nightmare?

    Oh, you poor dear. What utter, crushing frustration you must feel. Especially since the other side, the conservative side -- maybe it was your side? -- had its grand shot at running the show. It ran every sour idea, pushed every extreme right-wing economic scenario, wasted trillions on a failed war, spit on gays and kowtowed to the fundamentalists and shoved the country so far to the right we fell off Ted Haggard's massage table.

    And alas, "unmitigated disaster" doesn't even begin to cover what happened next.

    Is this the source of your terrible pain? That the brutal neocon agenda let you down? That BushCo just didn't do it right? Or is it the absolute opposite, and you are right now sneering in disgust that Obama isn't nearly radical enough, that we're all being duped into thinking he's a thoughtful, revolutionary liberal when, in fact, he's answering to the same ol' corporate interests and fellating the same ol' lobbyists and his plans merely sound grand and ambitious, despite how he's sending more troops to Afghanistan?

    Perhaps this is what's so infuriating. Not merely that Obama is wrong in every possible way, but that no one on the far ends of the political spectrum can quite agree on how.

    And so, the drama unfolds before you, and you are helpless to stop it. The massive, unprecedented redistribution of wealth, this "reckless" agenda of giving health insurance to children, investing in green tech, addressing global warming, pumping money into education, ending farm subsidies ... it's all such a sham. A disaster in waiting. A recipe for total anarchy. This is what you absolutely insist, be you on the far right or the far left.

    But to make matters worse -- oh holy hell, would you look at this? -- it turns out Obama isn't stopping with just reversing every toxic Dubya-caused debacle, nossir. It turns out he's reaching even further back, casually wrapping his long, socialist fingers around the throat of more than 30 years of pamper-the-rich, supply-side Reaganomics, and calmly squeezing. Heathen!

    This is, quite possibly, the most amusing thing I am hearing from the furious fringe: That Obama's plan will wreak hell on the deficit for generations to come. It's a bit like hearing a Catholic priest scold you on the perils of child abuse. I'm sorry, did you just say that it was fine and good to rape the Treasury for the past decade and worship Big Oil and waste two trillion on a failed and useless war, but redirecting those sums into science, health care, children and alternative energy is a terrible and costly idea?

    For you, there is nowhere to turn. The neocons failed to induce WWIII against the Muslims, the libs are failing because Obama doesn't openly endorse gay marriage and won't plant hemp in the Rose Garden and refuses to even acknowledge the obvious brain-scrambling power of chemtrails.

    To whom shall you turn? Perhaps the new de facto king of the GOP, Rush Limbaugh, praying aloud that Obama fails as he scrunches up his sweaty, bulbous face and scans the horizon for the slightest glimmer of a tolerable future Republican candidate who can shove us, well, who the hell knows? Not back to Bush. Not toward Obama. Maybe into China?

    Ah, Limbaugh. It is worth positing: How low hath the GOP sunk when the head of the Republican party, Michael Steele, drops to his knees and kisses the fat ring of this tumescent blowhard? The serene young black president calmly reinvents the American experiment, while the rival party sniffs around the armpits of ... extremist talk radio? What a thing.

    Which leads to the biggest question of all: Can Obama actually be both? Can he truly be a radical Muslim socialist dedicated to destroying the American ideal, and just another empty suit, a cleverly disguised corporate drone enslaved, like every president in history, by the great Matrix of the capitalist machine? Could be, could be.

    There is one more option, of course. And that is: Obama, and the America that's following him so passionately right now, are neither of those things in the slightest. And the fact that his extraordinary, nation-altering agenda is right now infuriating the hard right and the hard left, exasperating the Wall Street sycophants and confounding armies of TV pundits and prognosticators, even as he inspires millions of "regular" Americans to get off their butts and do more with their lives, well, this is perhaps the truest sign of all.

    When you piss off those kinds of people? You know you're onto something good.

  3. Very very funny. But even the Kool-Aid drinkers are starting to get it.

    Even ABC, even Big-time Obama supporter Jim Cramer, Even CNBC.

    The Headlines now read: Obama's Bear Market punishes investors.

    It appears Obama has never owned a stock in his life and has no idea how the market works or what it represents. So he has decided to kill the golden goose.

    To keep people like you, 7:05, happy, he has a team working overtime to keep the campaign going, ginning up distrust and anger at your neighbors, demonizing his own citizens, strategizing the war against Republicans, his own people.

    You traded a President who was at war with those who behead women for one who is at war with the people who create businesses, employ people and keep 'his' economy, and country running.

  4. And, by the way - inspires millions of "regular" Americans to get off their butts and do more with their lives

    How dare you denigrate the people who take care of their families, go to work, provide for themselves and their families, don't ask for any handouts, take care of their elderly parents, volunteer in their schools, maintain their homes, buy your goods, pay for their kid's college, plan for and provide for their own retirements so as not to be a burden in their older years, play by the rules and raise the next generation.

    Your lovely rhetoric is nothing more than despicable.

  5. " The young serene black president calmly reinvents the American experiment"

    Oh, he's black??

  6. exrepublican3/06/2009 12:50 PM

    and hes a nazi, a non-citizen, the anti-christ and a communist all in one......please, if you cant argue issues, why do you bother?

    i find it amusing that the republicans cant find an issue to find obama at fault with, so they attack his personality....

    if hes so bad, you would think that SOMEONE would be able to articulate it in words....

  7. exrepublican3/06/2009 12:53 PM

    oh my god!!! he read off of a teleprompter!!!! its the end of the world!!!!

    whiners crack me up.....dry your tears and grow up......

  8. No one's attacking his PERSONALITY, you idiot. It is his POLICIES.

    Everyone acknowledges that he is an articulate likable affable fellow - a nothing as a junior senator, perhaps, and now hopelessly out of his depth as he destroys the American economy...

    Don't worry comrade-ex. You have won.

  9. exrepublican3/06/2009 12:58 PM

    conusmer spending is a much better way to gauge the economy that the stock market....people like jim cramer, rush limbaugh and sean hannity are purposely tanking the market. they are talking the market into a downward spiral....

    seeing the elite whine and moan is funny....i hope the dow hits 0 this year. i cant wait to hear the whining then......

  10. exrepublican3/06/2009 1:01 PM

    comrade? or you joking me? you are calling a fiscal conservative who owns his own business a commie as you sit home all day eating bon bons and not working? ironic...

    attacking his policies? i havent seen one attack on any policy that hes introduced....

    PLEASE name some policies that you have attacked, if you can.....

  11. And btw - alot of people are putting it into words - here's big-time Obama backer now on the enemies-list Jim Cramer - ...But Obama has undeniably made things worse by creating an atmosphere of fear and panic rather than an atmosphere of calm and hope. He's done it by pushing a huge amount of change at a very perilous moment, by seeking to demonize the entire banking system and by raising taxes for those making more than $250,000 at the exact time when we need them to spend and build new businesses, and by revoking deductions for funds to charity that help eliminate the excess supply of homes.

    We had a banking crisis coming into this regime, but now every area is in crisis. Each day is worse than the previous one for this miserable economy and while Obama's champions cite the stimulus plan, it's really just a hodgepodge of old Democratic pork and will not create nearly as many manufacturing or service jobs as we hoped. China's stimulus plan is the model; ours is the parody.

    Obama's chickens, coming home. to roost.

  12. exrepublican3/06/2009 1:03 PM

    you can wish and hope and pray that obama ruins our dont work, so it really doenst affect you must be nice to be an elitist like rose....

  13. exrepublican3/06/2009 1:08 PM

    jim cramer can try to sink the market all he wants......its a free country......i dont gamble in the stock market anyways, so i could care less that he is putting fear in peoples hearts....

  14. exrepublican3/06/2009 1:18 PM

    ive watched every episode of jim cramers show this week....its so sad that his show has become a political movement that is bent on sinking the market....

    by the way, cramer was never an obama fan. ive watched him for years and he is a strict republican. calling cramer a fan of obama is a flat out LIE.....i shouldnt be surprised, im used to lies and distortions on this blog....

  15. Hey, ex, try READING the links. Jim Cramer issued a statement. In it, he explicity discusses his support of Obama - Cramer: My Response To The White House

    It is personal, but some things are a matter of public record, including my substantial six figure donations to the Democratic Party before I was no longer allowed to contribute by contractual agreement. I regard two Democratic governors as my friends, and helped back one of them in a major financial way and spoke and campaigned directly for the other.

    I also made it clear in a New York magazine article that I favored Obama over McCain because I thought Obama to be a middle-of-the-road Democrat, exactly the kind I have supported all my adult life, although I will admit to being far more left-wing during my teenage years and early 20s.

    To be totally out of the closet, I actually embrace every part of Obama's agenda, right down to the increase on personal taxes and the mortgage deduction. I am a fierce environmentalist who has donated multiple acres to the state of New Jersey to keep forever wild. I believe in cap and trade. I favor playing hardball with drug companies that hold up the U.S. government with me-too products.

    But these are issues that we have no time for now, on the verge of a second Great Depression. This is an agenda that must be held back for better times. It is an agenda that at this moment is radical vs. what is called for. I am proud to have voted for the Obama who I thought understood the need to get us on the right path, and create jobs and wealth before taxing it and making moves that hurt job creation -- certainly ones that will outweigh the meager number of jobs he's creating.

    Most important, I believe his agenda is crushing nest eggs around the nation in loud ways, like the decline in the averages, and in soft but dangerous ways, like in the annuities that can't be paid and the insurance benefits that will be challenging to deliver on.

    So I will fight the fight against that agenda. I will stand up for what I believe and for what I have always believed: Every person has a right to be rich in this country and I want to help them get there. And when they get there, if times are good, we can have them give back or pay higher taxes. Until they get there, I don't want them shackled or scared or paralyzed. That's what I see now.

    If that makes me an enemy of the White House, then call me a general of an army that Obama may not even know exists -- tens of millions of people who live in fear of having no money saved when they need it and who get poorer by the day.

  16. exrepublican3/06/2009 1:58 PM

    wait? so he embraced every part of obama's agenda before the election, but he will now fight against his entire agenda?

    that response seems a bit fishy to me a skeptic, but what did he expect obama to do differently? thats why i dont get, the guy clearly laid out what he is going to do.

    1. raise taxes on top 5% from 35% to 39%.
    2. try to make healthcare into some sort of socialist endeavor.
    3. cap and trade.
    4. more renewable energy.
    5. more regulation.

    so then he gets elected by a wide margin, by the PEOPLE, and does the exact same thing he pledged to do, and the people who were so focused on sarah palins ass or john mccains war history are now wondering what is going on!!! maybe you should have paid attention to BOTH candidates platforms during the elction instead of being such sheep....

  17. exrepublican3/06/2009 2:04 PM

    luckily for me, i dont have a horse in the political race.....unlike rose, i look at both sides and make decisions based on what is best for the horse that i do have in a race, which is my business........

  18. Ex, you have a future as a comedian. (comedienne?)

  19. exrepublican3/06/2009 2:11 PM

    funny how just a few short months ago, "liberals" were being lambasted for talking about how bad the economy was......according to the "right", the libs were feeding the fires and making it every conservative show host in the land is doing the exact same thing, but to a much higher degree....its surreal........

    being in the middle of the road gives such a better perspective on the world at large, as opposed to being a sheep for one party or the other......thats what bugs me about this blog, and why i always feel the need to respond to such one sided group ignorance....

  20. exrepublican3/06/2009 2:13 PM

    if i was gonna get into the entertainment biz, i was thinking more along the lines of a porn star than a comedian ......

  21. Are you that good lookin' ex?

    Look, if you want the other side, then add Eric to your reading list - he gives your the left, I'll give you the right, and you'll have your balance - right is kinda the unfilled niche around here, kinda figured ya needed a dash of the other side.

    You don't seem to be able to handle it well, though. I'd recommend blood pressure meds.

    PS: Do you also chastise Eric for his one-sidedness, and how much time he spends on his blogging? Or do you reserve criticism for women?

  22. exrepublican3/06/2009 4:17 PM

    yeah, i only criticize women.....please....are you gender-baiting me in order to change the topic?

    and why did you bring up eric's blog? the only politicaly slanted story on his blog at the moment is one where he is proclaiming "druggy limbaugh" king of the republican party......i happen to agree with him on that point, dont you?

  23. No. Not particularly. Sigh, ex, you're hopeless, I like Eric and Eric's blog, but in your wildest imagination you cannot say that it is not WA-A-A-A-A-Y-Y-Y to the left. I don't think Eric makes any bones about that, he is proudly and unabashedly left, albeit more reasonable than many.

  24. exrepublican3/06/2009 4:23 PM

    or did you, rose, come up with the clever name for the "porklulus plan"? seems to me like your leader coined it and all the little sheep repeated it.....

  25. Actually I generally refer to it as a Drunken Spending Orgy. The "Generational Theft Act" also fits, as does Spendulus, Porkulus - anything but the Orwellian "stimulus."

    No matter what you call it it is an unconscionable, depraved act by an irresponsible group of partisan legislators, who acted in haste, did not stop to read or consider what they were voting on and what other alternatives there might be.

    And they're not done yet.

  26. exrepublican3/06/2009 4:29 PM

    "....he is proudly and unabashedly left, albeit more reasonable than many."

    therein lies the difference....i am claiming that you arent very reasonable, very rarely confront my comments directly and instead i get the feeling that you are acting like a cheerleader, not a thinker....

  27. "anything but the Orwellian "stimulus.""

    i call it printing money...just like bush did...just like reagan did......most economists agree that a lack of circulation is bad for the economy...the depression that occured in the early 30's was due to a lack of circulation.

    but i wouldnt xpect anything except talking points from you.....why do i even try to talk economics with a lady who sits at home all day eating bon bons and fawning over the DA? i have tried this SO many cant talk issues, you can only take sides.....

    even if im able to get you to engage me intellectualy, i will still comment when i see inaccuracies....

  28. exrepublican3/06/2009 4:35 PM

    correction: even if im NOT able to get you to engage me intellectually, i will still comment when i see inaccuracies....

  29. exrepublican3/06/2009 4:53 PM

    funny how just a year ago, there was an unlimited amount of money that could be spent on killing muslims and then rebuilding what we destroyed? the checkbook was wide open, yet no complaints.

    now that money is being spent by a black democrat, some people are besides themselves....they are so discombobulated, that they cant get their story straight......listen to AM radio, its really funny......first there will be a caller claiming obama is the antichrist and bent on destroying the world...then the next caller will state that obama isnt a citizen....then the next caller will claim that obama is a nazi....then a goes on and on....pure comedy...

  30. Gee ex, you are home from 12:50 pm to 4:35pm?? WORKING??( or are you commenting on company time??) And why are you harping about Rose eating bon-bons?? And not having a REAL job. What are bon-bons exactly? You seem well acquainted with such things. Oh,and by the way ,many middle class people are invested in the stock market, not just rick folk anymore, so PRECIOUS is screwing EVERYONE over, get it fool??

  31. exrepublican3/06/2009 5:00 PM

    this wholepost is about PEOPLE, not about economic ideas...its a about one person, the pres..

    lack of intellectual debate on TOPICS bugs the hell out of me....talking about people is not talking about a topic....a person is not a topic......shallow people only talk about people, they cant get down and dirty and address the nitty gritty details.

    at least on eric's blog, you can tell he is a thinker. he will address a topic head on and veer off from the party talking points and go into the finer points of his individual stance...

  32. ex, in order to engage, I'd have to in some way agree to some of your starting points - and I just don't. So there's nowhere to go.

    I can't imagine how you can defend appointing a tax cheat to head the Treasury, for example.

    My answer to what you do when you run out of money is you STOP SPENDING. You don't go out and run up your credit cards, apply for and get 50 new credit cards and run them up, mortgage your house with 125% mortgage, get a loan on your car, borrow from all your friends with no intention of paying them back - and call that your recovery plan.

    So we are so far from having any common ground there is no possibility of having a discussion. You don't come here for that anyway. You come here to launch your criticisms.

    I basically post the things I think the mainstream media refuses to address, and the things I want to have on hand later.

  33. exrepublican3/06/2009 5:04 PM

    lunatic...if you think that the market is based on the president of the US, and you continue to invest in it, i have a bridge to sell you.....and what does that say about bush? they guy who caused this mess?

    also, most middle class workers invest in 401k plans that allow a wide variety of options. only the riskiest gamblers in the middle class put most of their money in stock potions of 401ks.....

    and lastly, i have EARNED the right to have a relaxing afternoon at the office. since i own the company, i doubt anyone will bust my chops.....

  34. Gee, Ex every time Precious has opened his mouth the Dow ( Greed, Greed!!) has dropped ( also with Tourbo-tax Geithner) And yes, ex ,the market does depend on " a general feeling of well being" which is not happening in any sense of the word. Your" Dear Leader" is causing panic and if you believe anything different I'll see you in the Government processed cheese line real soon,in fact I'll wave to ya. Yall' all come back now!!

  35. exrepublican3/06/2009 6:14 PM

    weve been in deficit spending since with it...

    are you just angry that money is being spent on america instead of rebuilding iraq or some other foreign place where there is no threat to us? if its a dollar spent on killing a muslim, its a dollar well spent....if its a dollar spent on a road or a bridge, its waste...nice priorities.

  36. exrepublican3/06/2009 6:15 PM

    by the way, since palin has turned out to be the latest tax cheat, i dont think that point has much teeth these days....

  37. The post above, ex, consists of a cartoon and some headlines with links. The links lead to factual coverage of the events that are unfolding, along with commentary on those events.

    I think you, truly, underneath it all, realize that what you have been duped into, when all is said and done, is electing a junior senator, with a few hundred days under his belt, who is vastly underqualified for the job he now has. I think you realize that his real record is one of extremely questionable pay for play deals, and dirty tricks. I think you realize he gestated in a pool of extreme activism and the worst kind of dirty politics in Chicago. Now, you may actually approve of all those things, tacitly, but the reality is, you know it is a disaster.

    Obama is the rancher who is no steward of his lands, and cares not a whit about his livestock. he is eating his seed corn, slaughtering his milk cows for meat, killing his bulls, consuming everything of value - He, with the legislators in their drunken spending orgy is mortgaging future revenues and will sell everything that is not bolted down before they get out of office.

    And he has the activist orgs spouting lovely mission statements to lull the American public into complacency, farm life is so beautiful and bucolic after all.

    Obama has essentially declared war on his own people, on his highest producers, the engine that runs the economy.

    I don't need to listen to Rush to understand that.

    What amazes me, ex, with all your self professed expertise, is that you couldn't see it coming - his record is actually very very clear had you chosen to look.

  38. Wow Rose, better than ever!!

    Obama is the rancher who is no steward of his lands, and cares not a whit about his livestock. he is eating his seed corn, slaughtering his milk cows for meat, killing his bulls, consuming everything of value - He, with the legislators in their drunken spending orgy is mortgaging future revenues and will sell everything that is not bolted down before they get out of office.

    You on fire! Peter Hanaford has nothing on you. Keep up the bullshiit!

  39. And now Obama's going to lift restriction on stem cell research. How dare he do such a thing!

  40. You do KNOW that the only restriction ever put on stem cell research was that it would not be paid for with taxpayers dollars?

    There have been no restrictions on privately funded research.

  41. exrepublican3/07/2009 7:56 AM

    "What amazes me, ex, with all your self professed expertise, is that you couldn't see it coming"

    i clearly stated that i knew what his plans were...all i had to do was pay attention!!! why would i pretend to act surprised and vicitimized now? you arent a victim and either am i, stop with your fake routine....he has been president for ONE month....

    if you would stop being a DRAMA QUEEN for one moment and take a deep breath, you may be able to discuss the situation is, you are bent on talking shit about the man...this isnt about economics, this is about DRAMA....

    oh yeah, i didnt proclaim my wealth, ive EARNED IT!!! try it sometime....your problem is that you dont respect hard work and accomplishment, because you think you are on some other "side" as me.....i will act in the best interest of MY BUSINESS and MY FAMILY, regardless of not a loyal party hack, and im proud of that independant streak...

  42. IndepenEnt streak? You? Don't make me laugh.

    But you may appreciate Krauthammer's take on it: The logic of Obama's address to Congress went like this:

    "Our economy did not fall into decline overnight," he averred. Indeed, it all began before the housing crisis. What did we do wrong? We are paying for past sins in three principal areas: energy, health care, and education -- importing too much oil and not finding new sources of energy (as in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and the Outer Continental Shelf?), not reforming health care, and tolerating too many bad schools.

    The "day of reckoning" has now arrived. And because "it is only by understanding how we arrived at this moment that we'll be able to lift ourselves out of this predicament," Obama has come to redeem us with his far-seeing program of universal, heavily nationalized health care; a cap-and-trade tax on energy; and a major federalization of education with universal access to college as the goal.

    Amazing. As an explanation of our current economic difficulties, this is total fantasy. As a cure for rapidly growing joblessness, a massive destruction of wealth, a deepening worldwide recession, this is perhaps the greatest non sequitur ever foisted upon the American people....

    Read the rest: Deception at Core of Obama Plans

    ...The list is long. But the list of causes of the collapse of the financial system does not include the absence of universal health care, let alone of computerized medical records. Nor the absence of an industry-killing cap-and-trade carbon levy. Nor the lack of college graduates. ...

    ...Clever politics, but intellectually dishonest to the core.

  43. ex's job is monitoring this blog.

  44. exrepublican3/07/2009 8:25 AM

    where is my paycheck?

  45. exrepublican3/07/2009 8:28 AM

    i see you are back to cutting and pasting......has charles krauthammer been following this thread? if not, why would you post an opinion of his? to avoid dicussing details with me?

    some people are thinkers, some are not.....

  46. exrepublican3/07/2009 8:29 AM

    if you had a real job, you would know that paychecks are involved with sitting at home collecting a welfare check doesnt count as a job in my book, so im not sure why i expected you to know that...

  47. I am soooooooo glad that the "exrepubican", or theother me or whatever he is going by, is an "EX" Republican. It bothers me when a Republican says something stupid.

    Does that make "Ex" a democart or an independant?

  48. Hey ExRepublican - can you get the hell back to your own blog. Your meltdown is pretty funny, but very repetitive and boring. Sort of like an even stupider Howard Dean unravelling!

  49. Howard Dean and Greg/ex are just alike. Self serving arrogant assholes who are commies here in a free society. In a communist country they would be bullies running a labor camp. Pathetic.

  50. exrepublican3/10/2009 2:27 PM

    i didnt think any of you could discuss economics, so im not surprised.....some people are thinkers, some are name callers....yawn...

  51. Greg, cut it out.

    The problem with you is that you "don't think." You just open your mouth again and again. My 12 year old has a better grasp on economics than you. But then again, she goes to a private school.

  52. exrepublican3/12/2009 10:04 AM rather talk issues...

  53. Rose,interesting thread and much more info about X/Greg than anyone needs to know. I can see why they call him abusive. He thinks ha can bully you because of your gender. How wrong he was on that point. I have much greater empathy for Carol now. Middle of the road, hell no. Just an ASS!


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