Monday, May 26, 2014

8 days to go

8

59 comments:

Liberal Jon said...

I'd recommend voters in the 4th to watch this.

http://www.keet.org/play.php?vid=LWV20140514

I think both candidates put their best foot forward and I think one makes it clear he believes in and empowered public sector to help make difficult decisions in coordination with the public and the private sector.

The other also believes in a public sector, but a greatly diminished one. One that is guided by the private sector itself.

One candidate is right of center, one candidate is left of center and they both made their best pitch. See you all at the polls.

Anonymous said...

Bullshit jon both are left of center. Just one is way way left.

liberal jon said...

That's interesting. Wonder why these right of center and/or folks invested in a particular General Plan outcome have endorsed Virginia.

Bill Bertain, Fred Sunquist, Randy Gans (in TS), Neal Ewald of Green Diamond, Sid Berg, Rex Bohn, Estelle Fennell, Ryan Sundberg (even though she voted to endorse his opponent at the HCDCC), Chet Albin, Frank Jager, Mike Newman, Marian Brady, Humboldt Builders Exchange, Operating Engineers Local Union No. 3, Richard Marks, Uri Driscoll (whose brother works for Jared Huffman). {From 460} Barnum Timber Company, Four Star Realty, Northcoast Fabricators, Debbie Provolt, Building and Construction Trades Council, and CREPAC.

So anon, maybe you are confusing her take on things like a woman's right to choose, on which she is left of center. But on the issues that matter to local money, Virgina is right of center. Way, way right.



Anonymous said...

8 days until Maggie's rude awakening that she isn't the chosen one. 8 days until we start over and Dollison or Firpo can right the ship.

Anonymous said...

Liberal Jon, Chris has always made decisions with other people's money.

He has no clue about jobs. He stopped my neighborhood and could not answer one specific question.

Anonymous said...

dollison right the ship ??!!!! holy cow !

right the ship? firpo? she's the hand picked choice of the guy that got ship swamped !!

Anonymous said...

That's your perspective. I voted for Paul every time. I've been praying someone would come along that had his ideals that could actually fix that mess. If she is Paul's pick, she is my pick.

John D said...

Exactly. Paul Gallegos is supporting Elan for a reason. Anyone who heard his impassioned speech down in Briceland last week when he introduced her would be instantly swayed. He explained exactly why Maggie could not be trusted with the job and why Elan could. It all came down to integrity and leadership. He acknowledged right there that Elan had the skills he was lacking and that he was already letting her move some of her agenda forward.He said she was already working some new grants and reworking the budget. He said they don't always agree, but Elan can be trusted to do what she says and to stand up for her convictions. He has seen them both up close at work for a long time. Say what you want about Paul, but pretending Elan is Paul when it comes to managing the office and fixing problems is flat out dishonest.
John Dierdra

Liberal Jon said...

"letting her move some of her agenda forward."
This doesn't seem right or legal,

Also, "He explained exactly why Maggie could not be trusted with the job and why Elan could. It all came down to integrity and leadership."

What exactly? Leadership and integrity are too general and one can easily see Maggie as both attributes running this campaign, as does Elan.

What, exactly, is the difference outside of personal attributes? That would be something that could sway my vote. Would there be differences in the focus of her team's prosecutions vs Maggie's for example?

Also, anon 4:49 , why don't you give the intertubes a shot at your questions? Let's show the world how fair your questions were and how evasive Chris must have been. Hiding his agenda and all.

Anonymous said...

What a crock. I know the man and not only has he no ideals....He has no clue. Rudderless lazy and dumber than a paint can

Stephen said...

And Rose thinks I can't post that I and a top level former ADA have great concern from the public record at hand that Gallegos is a flat out crook to boot who took a bribe from Bear River's chairperson to dismiss some 31 FELONY counts against the chairperson's son in exchange for a $10,000 dollar donation from Bear River to Paul's election campaign. We need Maggie to clean the DA office corruption and mismanagement mess Gallegos is responsible for and all the Proggies who elected him to office.

Anonymous said...

Liberal jon by now, instead of nonstop commenting, iyou can do your own research or simply read comments that explain the difference between Maggie and three other candidates running.

Do your own homework. You seem to think you know it all.

uri driscoll said...

LJ
Thank you for mentioning me as a supporter for Virginia although I don't speak for my brother nor he for me. Watching her work today was another reason for my support.
As I have said publicly Chris K has not offered us much to go on. His campaign has not offered any tangible reason to think he is going to improve the seat that Virginia has earned.
You and I are going to agree on a lot of things especially when it comes to agriculture lands but Chris's campaign has been a vast disappointment. He is not going to win but he missed the golden opportunity to establish a creative dialog.
If it matters to you I also supported Pat Cleary (even drove his vehicle in a parade) but Ryan still is respectful and receptive to my input. That shows a lot of class.
Maybe you have some sort of chart that tells you who is left or right of who and where exactly center is. The others you list here as right of center would not support all the candidates everyone else does so you must be privy to some super duper algorithms.
If it will help your formula I have voted 95% democrat 2% green 1% republican 1 % Peace and Freedom and 1% Libertarian with a margin of error of 4%.
I am not sure if I can recall all the bond measures though.
When you figure it out can you let me know if I am left or right of center. Or am I just center? Is there a center? Are you it?

Anonymous said...

uri, you and your brother are class acts. Although I disagree with your brother a lot of of the time, he does a great job. LJ is a complete ass, don't even need to address his tripe. Another prog who runs his ignorant lib but does little in the community of any use.

Anonymous said...

I certainly am impressed with Maggie Fleming.

Anonymous said...

Thank you John Dierda.

Anonymous said...

Not a Paul G. fan but not buying your crock. You are one of those highly paid Maggie or Arnie DA investigators.

Are you posting from work?

Anonymous said...

I am certainly impressed that she has spent more than any candidate in this race.

And lib jon supports a special interest
money soaked candidate.

Anonymous said...

Okay well john do, what speech does not surprise me or any of the current and former employees at the DAs office. That is how Gallegos roles. He will say what ever you want to hear to get that vote but he is full of it. Because at the end of the day his schizophrenic behavior comes out. We have all heard that speech from him a million times, but you all down at briceland have not. Firpo and Gallegos are one in the same. He wants her in there for his and his buddies own self interests. Oh and YES. Stephen is correct about the Indian bribe that went down last election. That is very true. In fact, Gallegos would and still gives the native American tribes that donated to him special treatment on criminal cases. They have monthly meetings at the DA office to focused these cases. Do other special interest groups get afforded the same consideration. No they do not. Think about that on election day!

Anonymous said...

LJ,

Seriously, you have a problem with this? "letting her move some of her agenda forward"

Elan is a Senior Felony Deputy. If she wants to spend her off hours pursuing grants to restore CAST, which Fleming decimated, this is a problem? If she lends her business experience to Paul to help the office articulate a budget, this is a problem?

If Maggie did this when she was in the office, we'd have a lot less problems to talk about now. Instead, she contributed to the problem.

You should definitely vote for Maggie. She's been a part time employee for 14 years and did nothing to improve her environment. She'll fit right in with the rest of your slate.

liberal jon said...

Uri - Thanks for the response.

Another supporter of Viginia and Ryan is Congressman Huffman, and unfortunately, his support of our conservative Board Members means I will not be volunteering for him, where I enjoyed meeting you btw, nor will I be voting for him. And your brother, I hope is a trusted member of his staff and probably one of the best connections he has to the North Coast.

So when I watch what Congressman Huffman does locally, I think he should be listening to his staff as he makes his decisions on who to endorse.

And let's be clear. Huffman, a Democrat, a liberal Democrat from one of the most liberal districts in the Country, endorsed a DTS candidate in Ryan before he even knew who he was running against. Something is not right here and it smacks of political you scratch my back- I'll scratch yours - at the expense of policy.

liberal jon said...

"As I have said publicly Chris K has not offered us much to go on."

Here is what you wrote in the TS. "Kerrigan has yet to explain how he can advocate for jobs while being so opposed to development. Developers, like ranchers and timber men and even sometimes fishermen have gotten pigeonholed by some of his most ardent supporters as "evil" for turning resources into homes and jobs for families'"

So much right of center to unpack here. a) Chris is pro-development as I am too. Growth is happening and as liberals we welcome all to our home who want to be here. - We just need to be smarter that our parents and as smart as our great- grandparents when planning how we are to grow. It's about how to grow, not if we should grow. b) I'm a connoisseur of the political use of the word "evil" or "enemy" and after weeks and months of watching public comment and reading opinions online and in print locally, I have yet to see actual people on the left use this term - at least since 6/3/13 when I became active by Virginia's vote on the Guiding Principles. Please reference the use of that term. There is nothing "evil" about "turning resources into homes and jobs for families", in fact our resources are the manna of our collective livelihood here on the North Coast.

What you have missed in the rhetoric is what I am advocating for and why I support Chris for Supervisor is because he understands we are interested in turning resources into homes and jobs "for the long term". That is something Virginia clearly voted against on 6/3/13. Here was what she was given..."Protect agriculture and timberland over the long-term, using measures such as increased restrictions on resource land subdivisions and patent parcel development." Here is what she voted to change it to..." Encourage, incentivize and support agriculture, timber, ecosystem services and compatible uses on resource lands."

If we the public can't vote for Supervisors who do not believe it is within the public sector's jurisdiction to "protect agriculture for the long term" (full stop) then we are in trouble as a County.

So the chart I use to determine right and left and center? It's the same one we all use. We understand our perspective then we look around us. Look around you Uri. Who is Virginia's base? Who is Ryan's? Who is Chris' and who is Sharon's.

Uri, conservative Democrats are the new Republicans in HumCo. Unfortunately. We have one party to help to distinguish left from right and the right is doing it's darned best to join the left-of-center's success. I think we do agree on more than we disagree, but we disagree on whom to trust in making the difficult decisions going forward. Virginia and Ryan have and will continue to listen intently to the Chamber of Commerce, Chris and Sharon will listen to us, the public first, then bring the Chamber of Commerce to that table.

It's right (those that believe a free or free(ish) market is the best guide to the future with government taking a subordinate role) vs left (who understand a free market is part of a vibrant economy that includes an empowered public sector guided by diverse and robust* public participation)




Rose said...

LiberalJon, you are an idiot if you think ANYONE is against saving AG land. And NO ONE is against trails.

But SOME people don't think it is WISE to give some slacker, who makes nothing, and has done nothing significant (no, sorry, going to school is normal, not significant) over the last few years, give him one of the highest paying and most powerful jobs in the county.

Let him get a real job, and actually work, and then show himself to be concerned about the community, not just from a dictatorial standpoint, and then come back if he REALLY feels the call to public service, for something more than a paycheck with power.

And drop the sleazy campaign manager (the real one, jon, not the front).... oh, and by the way, about Ken Miller....

liberal jon said...

If everyone is against losing Agland Rose, why in California are we so good at losing it to development? That's one of the benefits of allowing outsiders to your neck of the woods up here. We are witnesses to what suburbs and exurbs do to agland. (see Central Valley)
^policy^

"some slacker", "makes nothing", "done nothing significant", "real job", "actually work", "show himself to be concerned about the community", "dictatorial",
^conservative politics-as-usual character analysis^

BTW, guess who always happens to win when conservatives analyze character? Conservatives. If Chris went to work for 8 years, say as a retail clerk at McDonalds, then spent his 2 week days off (he would have to work weekends of course) volunteering at Food for People, would you vote for him then? If he had the same platform? Of course not. It wouldn't matter what background Chris had, it's his policies that bother you. Unfortunately, you are not comfortable talking about your views on property rights and choose to ignore climate change reality.

Talking about policy is not a winner for you so focus on the lying, the lack-of-character, and the dictator-ness. Even if these characteristics have nothing or little to do with reality, that will be your focus. And that in a nutshell is why we are run in HumCo by a BOS who fundamentally do not believe in a public sector independent from control by the private sector.

Your worry is misplaced, it is not an imaginary dictatorship we need to worry about, but what is actually happening - an oligarchy.

Anonymous said...

Anon @3:43, that comment sounds like someone from the Firpo or Dollison camp trolling. That face. That firpo and dollison have teamed up says volumes about her lack of integrity. She has made a deal with dollison to bring him back if she wins. Pathetic!

Rose said...

FACT: If Chris Kerrigan was registered as a Republican, LiberalJon would be against him. Even if you kept all his positions the same.

FACT: LiberalJon has already said that even if you prove to him that you are right, he will still stick to his dogma.

FACT: LiberalJon has no problem dictating to other people how they should live their lives, what they should do with their own property. He is a big brother loving nanny-stater. It's really sad.

Anonymous said...

Rose, you remember your first coffeeshop blog post after Obama was reelected? You posted articles on the red stated seceding from the union to avoid the democrat led government. Now THAT is sad.

liberal jon said...

Forgetting environmental regs for a moment, because there was not an awareness of them in the 50's we have today.

If Eisenhower were running against Obama with platforms like a 90% top marginal tax rate, Unionization rates from the 50's, etc. I'd vote for the Republican. Unfortunately since The John Birch Society, Goldwater, Nixon, Reagan and Rush, the Republicans have lost any belief in the public sector. It's a no-government philosophy disguised as a low-low-low government and the only always acceptable government spending seems to be spending on defense and police and an overstaffed DA's office.

Also ..."FACT: If Chris Kerrigan was registered as a Republican, LiberalJon would be against him. Even if you kept all his positions the same." This is just not true. I can't think of a better candidate for BOS Republican or Democrat. If he was a Republican and the Democratic candidate was to the left of him, I don't know how? Maybe no growth or wanting to halt all resources extraction, I'd be voting for Chris. There is a sustainable way to the future which allows both income from resources and sustainability. Chris gets this Virginia (and you Rose) don't.

Anonymous said...

Rose, just block this asshole. Your are allowing him a soapbox much larger than he can get by himself. Also you have Richard running his mouth. He makes visiting your site painfull.

Rose said...

I dunno, it's kind of entertaining - we went from current events to Goldwater in one fell swoop.

Anonymous said...

You mean like the Maggie and Arnie deal. There are no deals but someone is desperate enough to lie.

Anonymous said...

4:33 annoying as some people are, Rose's blog is the one place where she allows all to comment.

Should you be blocked because I disapprove of your comment?

Anonymous said...

Once this election is over, we need "some global warming is a liberal hoax" posts

Anonymous said...

Why wait? It is a hoax. Liberty is best curtailed during crisis.

Anonymous said...

Yes! That's why we need Rose to get to work!

Anonymous said...

Has nothing to do with disapproval of comments. Its just constant trash without logic, substance, or knowledge. LJ is doing verbal masturbation. Its a form of political commentary practiced by people who want attention but who really have no understanding of issues. His blog has shit for viewers so he rides on Roses shirttails.

liberal jon said...

"His blog has shit for viewers". How do you know this and how is poop defined? 0-50 hits/post = poop, 50- 100 hits = meh, 100-200 hits = not bad, 200 + hits = getting somewhere. Is that fair?

I don't mind publishing all my hit data if you are curious, I've been meaning too.

I'm only not posting recently because of all the junk I have to respond to that is flat out wrong on Softball, here, and Fred. I'll get back to being proactive soon. But I'll still be contradicting the nonsense with the good stuff when needed. Kinda like a Liberal Avenger! Contradicting right wing memes in a single paragraph...

Rose said...

Ok, Jon, clear it up - what has Kerrigan done with his life that qualifies him to tell other people what to do? To GOVERN over us?

Besides spouting Salzmanisms, what has he DONE?

He graduated high school, went to CR and then HSU, ok, good, wow, THAT's unusual. he was the youngest City Councilman back in the day, and he left in the middle to go chasing rainbows, ok.

SINCE THEN - he decided to run for Mayor, which pays nothing, then Supervisor instead, because it pays more and that'w where the power is.

"It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible"

Rose said...

OK, Jon, WHICH SITTING ELECTED OFFICIAL ACTUALLY ACTED AT HIS BACKER'S BIDDING?

Answer: Paul Gallegos filed Ken Miller's lawsuit, even let the sleaze ball into the DAs office to help write it.

Ok, Jon, who is Kerrigan's biggest donor?

What does Ken Miller want this time?

Anonymous said...

JL, get yourself into therapy soon.

liberal jon said...

1:37 Thank you, I'd be proud to. I think mental health issues and those who often suffer from them are too often ignored, denigrated or ostracized in this country (and most others for that matter). It's human nature and I think we as a society are beginning to step away from stigmatizing it. Huzzah!

Rose:

1) I'll just cut and past this snippet below as I see this as what is going on. It's character issues personality politics as a diversion from policy discussions and politics as an extension of civics.

"With very few exceptions we are all good people. I think Rose thinks the same as long as you are on her side of the chasm.

If not, it may be because you are of insufficient character to get "it". One's beliefs it seems can be understood because those on the left are basically lacking in character. I think that general argument stands for an estimated 70% of the right's argument. Check it out, 70% may be low."

2) "Ok, Jon, clear it up - what has Kerrigan done with his life that qualifies him to tell other people what to do? To GOVERN over us?"

I can't clear up what you want me to clear up. I've never asked Chris about his life. I'd consider it a little rude actually. My concerns are about what he do as a leader. How does he feel about topics such as the General Plan, homelessness, weed, safety issues, a sustainable environment and economy, living wages, etc. But I would like to clear up something - Chris would not be capslock governing us. Ultimately we would be his boss. We govern ourselves through our elected representatives. As the first and greatest Republican President said at Gettysburg... " government of the people, by the people, for the people"...

If he gets elected and we do not like his policies, say Ken Miller gets too many pet projects accomplished, we can fire him.

So Rose, the bottom line is I can't help you with Chris' back ground, I don't know what Ken Miller wants this time (trails?), I'm not certain "sleaze ball" is fair, I don't think it's fair to conclude from what we don't know about Chris' past that he is corruptible.

Rose, what I do know is this. If you know what drives Chris as in "...since then - he decided to run for Mayor, which pays nothing, then Supervisor instead, BECAUSE IT PAYS MORE AND THAT'S WHERE THE POWER IS"...

means you have incredible access to Chris'...soul? Since you were able to conclude this I don't think it mattered what Chris' background was. You've already decided, and the reason behind your decision was something no other human being other than Chris could actually know. Nice.

The truth is, of course it doesn't matter. What does matter is the policies Chris will promote. My take on how Chris will lead is he will promote polices that empower the the public through the public sector to plan for the future. Why? Because we need a strong private AND public sector to be a succesful county today AND tomorrow and we need leaders of a public sector that actually believe in government.

We start to find leaders like this by having a public discussion about policies with only a pinch of personality-politics soap opera thrown in (as is inevitable) - not the other way around.

Anonymous said...

You have to appreciate that both LJ and Stephen support Fleming. She has an impressive cross section of looney tunes. And I mean that as a compliment.

Anonymous said...

Rose, its appears from reading your blog posts and comments that you lead a fairly miserable life. I hope thats not the case.

Anonymous said...

LJ, You have no idea of what policies Chris will support. Your political beliefs are that of an infant. It is obvious you have never met a payroll, sold anything, had an Econ. class, that you live on a pension from a government job or SS. Never been a leader or elected to public office. Why don't you listen to people who have done those things and been on boards with Chris and seen him in action (actually inaction). Most of his claims are bullshit. If you are to stupid to look through public records of board minutes then thats on you. As they say ignorance is bliss. Smuck.

liberal jon said...

"You have no idea what policies Chris will support" ??? a) Seriously, have you been paying attention. I know for one Chris supports "protecting agriculture for the long term" would not have removed it and will work to if not change it back, build a Planning Department that plans. b) I know Chris will not take his marching orders on the homeless problems we have from Rob Arkley as Supervisor Bass has done. Only to sell her work as compassionate. Did you attend Arkley's event last fall? That's what initiated the weekly closed meetings Virginia and Rex have been heading up. c) Chris would support a working wage of $12 in Eureka - Virginia does not. 3 differences as a start.

OK, moving on to what you do best - "politicals beliefs of an infant", never met a payroll (true), sold anything (true) had an Econ. Class (can't remember - maybe true) that you live on a pension from a government job (close) or SS (getting there). Never been a leader or elected to public office (truish).

This is not about me nor is it about any other person who votes or runs. This is about policy. What direction do we want to go as a community.

That list you mention is very one sided, did you notice that - very private sector. You know what - I'm down. I've worked in the private sector the majority of my working life and would never want to be an owner and was pretty stressed when I was a manager. It's not my thing. I am not motivated by more money.

What does motivate me, and people like Chris is a sense of common purpose, altruism if you like. I'm not here to trumpet myself, earning a dime is as, if not more important, as the other work - that in the public and non-profit sectors. But importantly, these sectors ARE important as well. The base of the conservative movement(and a chunk of HumCo liberals) does not believe government should be empowered to do things like protect our commons, offer affordable and universal health care, help plan for the future and react proactively in a way the myopic (please, let's face it) private sector cannot.

liberal jon said...

We all (entrepreneur, bureaucrat, blue-collar worker, non-profit worker, etc.) have a role to play. But where conservative rhetoric hits a brick wall in reality is they (you) are trying to increase the private sector and decrease the public. It's pretty basic stuff and you can see it in the character traits you wish in a leader. (btw, the inaction baloney is a nice meme, I'm not buying it, but it will garner you some votes).

"Why don't you listen to people who have done those things"? I've been watching our current Board in action too many hours. It's depressing. Their interests are not say maintain a modest and questionably effective setback to protect salmon and, btw, the salmon industry, it's to maximize the realtor's, land owner's and land speculators' holdings. The list goes on and on and I've seen it first hand.

But we won't hear about this here. Here what we'll get is the mantra that the private sector knows best. Education is for schmucks. Shut up, listen to the Chamber of Commerce, leaders who get it, and other's in the community who've run a payroll. Because payrolls are what makes America great - not our shared resources and infrastructure like public education, our common history, our common government, and our common future. Its those precious few the business elite who have filtered their way, based on merit and hard work to the top who should and must be listened to.

I disagree with your premise.

...... I don't think I did ever finish an Econ course. I wish I did. What I do have a very good grasp of is science. I'm not cutting edge anymore, but I have a solid foundation. I know when people are bull shitting, and the right is bullshitting on climate change nationally and locally they did a solid job of ignoring our local wildlife biologists during the Planning Commission review of the Open Space Element this Spring. There are many, maybe most economists who might agree with the premise that there is a not strong role for the public sector in our society - among them Maynard Keynes, John Kenneth Galbraith, Paul Krugman and many, many others in academia today. Scientists who believe either that climate change is not happening or it is not human-caused - not so much.

Anonymous said...

And you are a nasty little shit 10:50. Seems your life is way so miserable you have to troll here to force your nasty misery on the rest of us. Please don't kick your dog tonight or beat your poor wife.

liberal jon said...

huh, the "not" in the second to last sentence should not be there. Oops.

Anonymous said...

Lib jon You are really small minded and narcissistic. Do you preach to yourself in the mirror? Inquiring minds want to know.

Anonymous said...

LJ, all your comments and justifications indicate that you infact do not understand peer reviewed science. That you believe in Keynes economic theories indicates you have little understanding of Econ. at any level. That global warming/cooling cycles occur and have for billions of years is a fact. What may be in dispute is mans actual effect on it.If you read something besides HuffPost, Americans against the Tea Party, NCJ, or any of the other progressive sites you might have a broader understanding of things.By local biologists would you include LaValle. Some people actually think the meth freak had the smarts to figure out the scam they pulled. Oh, how about the Snowy beach bird bullshit, or the cover up on the dead whale. Personally I believe you should stick your altruism ego garbage.

liberal jon said...

This is so awesome! Thank you! A conservative who believes in peer reviewed science and who believes that a Keynesian cannot, by definition, understand econ. OK. Let's type.

I have listened for 20 years most of the time to conservative rather than liberal radio, so I know the drill. Believe me. I'm no HuffPost liberal. I'm a Rush Limbaugh listening liberal, so this will get fun if you believe in science and are a Tea Party fan.

Do you mean Snowy Plover? Are you against doing what we can to protect endangered species? Is LaValle the criminal who happens to be a biologist who embezzled money. No defense of him from me, he may be a biologist, but he is also a criminal. Just as if a conservative committed a crime, he is a criminal who happens to be a conservative. I wouldn't hold that against Supervisor Bass for example. Don't know about the dead whale.

Here* is the WSJ on the 97% consensus of scientists from the WSJ. You will appreciate it - seriously. The funny thing is, it is written by the president of the Heartland Institute and Rush Limbaugh's scientist Robert Spencer.

Google Roy Spencer Rush Limbaugh to get to Dr. Spencer's wiki page.

It's a small small small group of scientists who could say a) climate change accelerated from the geological norm is not happening or b) this acceleration in climate change is not man made nor is it not enhanced by increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide, methane and other greenhouse gases. I'd like to read that peer reviewed scientific journal.

*http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303480304579578462813553136

Anonymous said...

Poor l j he grasps to his religion desperately. Its okay jon we get it.

Anonymous said...

Poor l j he grasps to his religion desperately. Its okay jon we get it.

liberal jon said...

Quick Google search for liberalism is a religion


https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1AVSC_enUS440US440&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=liberalism%20is%20a%20religion

Check out the sources of the results. Townhall, American Spectator, WND, etc. That's another strong and effective right wing talking point. It continues this idea I'm trying to get across that conservatives can't discuss policy (unless it's reducing taxes and thus the public sector or increasing fear of other and thus spending on defense, walls, etc.). Instead, question the intentions or character of liberals or liberalism.

The California electorate is onto this rhetoric and where it's coming from. Like I keep trying to say, it's why Republicans can't run or win as Republicans anymore at least in HumCo and statewide in California.

Instead try backing up why we should not place in our Guiding Principles of the General Plan - we want to "protect agriculture and timberland for the long term"(period). It's a tough argument to make and it's not nearly as entertaining as making politics personal.

Rose said...

Ri-i-i-ight, Jon. Protect timberland. Yeah.

And attack the owners of that land.

You may not know, Jon, but a long time ago, people were taxed based on the value of the trees growing on their land. So they'd cut them. In order to stop that, legislation passed, recognizing that letting the trees grow was a good thing and landowners should not be penalized for it. (I'm sure it was ONLY Democrats, all by themselves, high-minded as they are, and no one else of course).

During the recent TPZ debacle, your buddies turned on those owners with accusations of 'cheating' because of those 'tax advantages.'

Dishonesty is all that characterizes you and your buddies. You don't care one whit about the truth. Or anyone. Just the power to dictate.

You prove it here over and over and over again, and cannot see it. It's a shame. It's also what keeps you where you are.

uri driscoll said...

LJ,

What is your definition of "protect".

Anonymous said...

Rose said, "Let him get a real job, and actually work"

What an ironic statement, considering that ROSE DOES NOT HAVE A JOB

Liberal jon said...

Uri protect is an action verb giving the public sector agency with oversight the responsibility to plan with the principle that it would seek to maintain the resource or value sustainably into the future.

Liberal jon said...

t's also what keeps you where you are.

I'd like to hear your perspective on where I am. I feel really good about where I am.

Rose, the way I understand TImberland Protection Zones is they are a "voluntary" tax shelter or reduced tax rate for large land holders in timberland resource zones. If the land owner shooses to use the tax break there are resource management rules he (or sometime she) has to meet.

Any links would help if you want to learn me different.

As far as attacking land owners, that isn't me. I'm often, not always, trying to debate land owners as my interests are often different than theirs, at least the one that are not considering big picture societal/environmental consequences. Say like the pot and water issue you posted on earlier. That's probably the most accute collective environmental concern and you are right to call out any organization that isn't making a big deal of it.
Other concerns property owners might not get, doubling the number of homes in TPZ lands will double the human impact, including water consumption, sedimentation, resource conversion, invpcreased transportation costs and dumb growth, etc.

Not attacking private property owners, not calling them evil Uri, just asking them to debate their concerns honestly and bring them to the BOS like everyone else.