Sunday, April 13, 2008

How are you going to do that, Estelle?

Candidate Estelle Fennell issued a statement this week alleging that Supervisor Roger Rodoni has watched a job loss “epidemic” during his time in office.... Fennell stated that it is clear to her that the Second District has suffered more than others when it comes to overall timber job losses, which she said she would change if elected.

How are you going to do that, Estelle?

Are you in a position to call off the dogs? Bring back all the mills? All the trucking companies? Timber Yes. Fraud NO. is a nice bumper sticker. It won't fix what has happened here.

Maybe if you could go back in time you could solve the Headwaters deal, stop Earth First! Stop the lawsuits. Stop the Park Expansion. Save the Mills, at least a few.

Too bad you can't. 'Cause then there would be no Ken Miller, no Humboldt Watershed Council shams. No Richard Salzman. No Paul Gallegos. All your buds. They haven't shown that they can fix anything.

SoHum Parlance: Ed Denson's questions for Estelle (or anyone else)

96 comments:

Bob the HumBlogger said...

Sure, let's hop in the Way-back Machine and reverse the expansion of Redwood Park, great idea. Were you in the Straight-Arrow Coalition back then? And while we're at it, let's bring back the Tee-Pee burners. Those were the glory days, when the smoke filling the sky showed how prosperous we were.

Anonymous said...

Maybe Estelle can cure cancer while she's at it?

But there seem to be plenty of jobs trimming bud, constructing grow houses/buildings, Fed Exing weed all over, selling fertilizer, selling diesel, and so on.

Talk is cheap.

Anonymous said...

Oh Bob the Tee Pee burners where not that bad. What do you think of all the fertilzer and rat poison that has run off into the Eel River over the years? Not to leave out the Mattole River. And now the diesel and oil spills? How many roads have been made in the back woods. Oh yes Bob the marijuana industry is soooo much better.

Another thought. How many people where shot and/or killed over a Tee
Pee burner?

Fred said...

Ahhh, the Straight Arrow Coalition. I was in that one waaay back then. That was back around '76ish.

Rose said...

No, Bob. Actually I like the Park.

But there is no question that the Park expansion affected jobs here - that's why there were huge payouts to the affected workers (alot of them bought Camaros, but some took advantage of the job retraining programs).

That, coupled with curtailing all cutting in the National Forests, that pretty much eliminated all the small mills - the ones that didn't have their own timber holdings - and all the jobs that went with them.

We can't go back - but the point here is, it may SOUND good to say the jobs were lost on Rodoni's watch and imply that therefore he is to blame, but the facts don't add up.

There's another question too, how much land should be publicly owned? At what point is it enough? You want timber industry to survive? You want the jobs that go with it? She'd have to be able to change the mentality that is attacking the industry because they believe there should be no logging, and that houses build themselves, like a movie.

Anonymous said...

Not a God Damned thing good about the park. Yet. Maybe someday if they ever live up to their PR of making an economy to replace the lost one. Fat chance. Straight arrow was a good group. There members worked,payed taxes,told the truth and got screwed to the max by park promoters. The state of the park today is no economy,no support for local working folks,no follow through on ecomomic promises,recreational promises or promises of being good neighbors, rabbid expansion and don't forget park staff management that are anti-local communities and do not keep their agreements. Ever!. Nothing good to say about RNSP unless you're a lazy,good for nothing member of their check of the month club. May they rot in hell along with their park.

Rose said...

Well, the concept behind the park system was good. That there would always be open land, places to fish, places to ride, places to hike and camp, and get away from the city, places for everyone regardless of income or social status. So that not everyone had to be a wealthy landowner, or know one.

Places where animals could roam relatively undisturbed, with space that they need, unencroached, real wildlands.

The question of how much land should be publicly owned is now a factor. The state is closing campgrounds because they say they can't afford the upkeep, maintenance and operational costs.

And that doesn't count all the land that is set aside now in conservancies.

Anon.R.mous said...

Poor Bob, Bob forgets that now sawdust and chips are used, from everything to building shitty dust board to making power and carbon. But even those are slowing down around here.

Anonymous said...

I remember some of those that bought Camaro's with their Park Money. Camaro's and cocaine. Hanging out at Fat Albert's 3 or4 nights a week.

Oh well. The timber industry was replaced. Replaced by an industrialzed marijuana industry.

Rose said...

The size of the check was based on the number of years they had worked... Anybody remember the names of all the mills?

Anonymous said...

Was Rodoni Supervisor in 79 and 80? I don't think so.

mresquan said...

"But there seem to be plenty of jobs trimming bud, constructing grow houses/buildings, Fed Exing weed all over, selling fertilizer, selling diesel, and so on."

Well since Roger has stood with his hands at his hips and done nothing to help improve the economic vitality for his constituents,the pot industry certainly is the most viable for anyone affected by his tenure in office.

Anonymous said...

Timberlands in public ownership seems to have worked out better than in private hands ala PALCO.

Anonymous said...

Lets stay on topic, shall we 645? Again, how is this Rodoni's fault?

And Konkler, not everyone can be a "landscaper" like yourself...
WTF do you think Rodoni SHOULD have done? Honestly?

Estelle has done nothing other than offer a press release that has only made her look foolish.

Anonymous said...

If Rodoni were honest he would have at least tried to do something when it became apparent that PALCO was cutting at an unsustainable rate. Honestly!

Anonymous said...

Come on people give Rodoni a break. Wishing for the best is hard work that not just anybody can do.

Rose said...

Really, 7:58 - You want County Supervisors telling private businesses what to do? Should he tell Ramone's how many cups of coffee to sell? Should he tell Pierson's what kind of tile to order? Should he tell the farmers what to plant for next year's crops?

And, funny, 8:00 - isn't it, that the Governor gave the exact same answer?

Why? Could it be because they do not have any say in what the bankruptcy court judge decides?

Anonymous said...

If Ramone's coffee sales were having an adverse affect on our rivers and causing landslides, YES, I would expect the supervisors to step in and stop them. If a supervisor was getting free coffee and scones at Ramones for protecting them, I would want him FIRED!

You made an allegation about fixed elections. Care to explain that one?

Rose said...

Ahhh, I must admit you have got me there. I wasn't thinking of it in THOSE terms. I was thinking of FIXING, not FIXING in the sense that you are thinking of.

I'll make a note of it in the post. Not gonna change it though.

Anonymous said...

And the fixed elections comment? Empty and deceitful rhetoric?

Anonymous said...

It doesn't surprise me that the gubernator had the same reaction as Rodoni. They are both right wingers.

Rose said...

Call it what you will, 8:59 - to me what it meant was Salzman setting his strategy in place, what, a YEAR before the election took place? The ads and the slogans all drummed into people's heads well in advance, all the careful wording so that they didn't actually SAY they were supporting Paul because that would have triggered FPPC disclosure requirements for the so-called Alliance for Oh-So-Ethical Business. I was thinking of THEIR empty rhetoric Timber Yes. Fraud No Justice for All, Logging the Way it Used To Be, and all the incredibly deceitful things that made up the entire reason I am doing this now.

That's what I was thinking of.

But you are thinking of it in the sense that Jim Jones did in San Francisco. And that Stoen just happened to be here. Yeah. I see what you are getting at. Interesting.

Anonymous said...

That isn't fixing elections and you know it Rose. Your hyperbole is catching up to you

Rose said...

Eh, 8:41, 8:59, and 9:21 as soon as you mentioned it I knew exactly what you meant - but seriously, and it's hard to say seriously because you are crackin' me up - I WASN"T thinking of it THAT way. :) I'm sorry you're so upset about it, but now you've got me wondering - is this "bigger than I could possibly imagine?"

Anonymous said...

Fixing not fixing? Clear as mud.

Anonymous said...

Yet Jane Doe the mouth piece for lovelace clones of anti-rural living states clearly that "they" her crowd and markie should be able to tell us where to live,what to eat and drink,how much is OK in their view to drive,consume,or plan for. They will decide what we can grow and where and that is that. Now it's very clear the huberous they posses and the contempt they hold for the rest of us. So you social engineers we know markies your boy and why. What is worse than seeing you clearly is that you are believe your own B---S---.

Anonymous said...

nothing more pathetic than an old, burned out loggers wife

Anonymous said...

When did Jane state that, 11:55? She said she can voice her opinions of where people should live, as can Rose. Nothing about the rest of the stuff you claim. When you have to lie to make your point you lose. I believe the word you wanted was "hubris."

Anonymous said...

Wonder all you want Rose. Start an investigation. File a complaint. You said that Gallegos and crew fixed elections and when called on it tried to spin that you didn't mean fixing but fixing. Only your "clones" here are stupid enough to buy your line of BS.

For the "huberous" guy, if you read rather than listened to fanatical talk radio you would know how to spell that.

Rose said...

Ok, OK, it's changed. Point taken. For those who are wondering, it said "couldn't fix anything except an election." And looking at it I agree it can be taken the way he says, so, you win.

Anonymous said...

Why did you change it?

Anonymous said...

Jane and company say and promote everything 11:55 said. In their one sided blog,in public meetings,in the people they support for elections,for their stance in TPZ restrictions,in supporting code enforcement assults and in the back room money deals they engage in to support their revolving door action groups.

Anonymous said...

Rose again you've got them on the ropes. Can't defend their paid lobbiest so they try to win a spelling bee. How very leftest of them. As usual.

Rose said...

Because - I don't believe that Salzman "fixed" the election in that sense. I think what he does is conduct an intense get out the vote effort, in which they identify early who their likely supporters are - with all those phone calls people complain about. Then, they diligently follow up and call only those supporters back and make sure as many of them get to the polls as possible, and where, where elections can be won or lost by a couple of votes, it's enough to put them over the top.

In reality all the rest of the campaigning is a waste of time, and any opponents of a Salzman/Local Solutions backed candidate should take heed.

In this race, it looks like it may be dueling camps in that sense.

Ads are nice, and they're important, forums are important, but in the end it is the Get Out The Vote that will carry the day.

Anonymous said...

At least you finally learned how to spell paid. Your attempts to be the mouthpiece for environmentalists fall short, probably because you are incapable of understanding people who think about future generations and not just how to make the payment on the latest toy you need to feel alive. Sad.

Anonymous said...

" When did Jane say that" evry time she opens her socialist mouth or puts the phony words to print. Keep following their blindness and watch the fabric of society fall apart.

Anonymous said...

Jane,ann. 7:51,heraldo.who every you are. All are. WRONG! Keep puffing on your pipe. We know it's what you need to feel alive.

Anonymous said...

Jane,besides your strick allegiance to your doggma, whst makes you the all knowing spokes person for enviromentalism? Is it your support for the greman style code enforcement? Do you support Mark Lovelace for his ridgid party line stance? People matter too,Jane.You can't see the forest for the trees. Some of us can think for ourselves.

Anonymous said...

Jane,the way you and the crew are under cutting Paul says a lot about you. The ends justify the means is NOT OK with us. Not for Hurwitz,not for HWC,not for HELP.not for MARK. When you lied about Mark being a paid lobbiest you tore the temple vail. Don't go further with the attacks on Paul Pitino

Anonymous said...

You drink the wine that I buy,you dance to the music I play.

Anonymous said...

I'm trying to sign in to your blog. It won't take me.so I have to post as ANNON. Any advice?

Rose said...

10:21, you have a couple of options, one is to click the name/url box and enter any name you choose, another is to sign up with blogger (think of your name ahead of time) - you do NOT have to click the yes I want a blog option, you can just get a name - and of course, you can always use the anon heading and just sign your comments at the bottom. Signing up will streamline your future interactions. I forget if you need a gmail account/email address to sign up.

Anonymous said...

Who has attacked Paul Pitino? I think he is perferable to Plumley, but not as good as Lovelace. You have a different opinion.

Anonymous said...

I'm getting so confused about my identity. Who am I today? Jennifer? Heraldo? Jane? Ann?

Anonymous said...

Who is Ann?

Anonymous said...

I don't know who any of those people are, but I have been called by all of those names here. Paranoia runs deep in Roseland.

Rose said...

You must be new to the blogs. It is a constant guessing game, rather like an extended and elaborate masquerade ball. Guessing who is who is part of the fun, and part of the game, and part of the bloodsport that is political blogging in Humboldt County.

If you don't like it, you choose a name, a moniker, and stick with it - you'll find the level of discourse changes when you do that - both from people talking to you, and in the way you yourself relate. In a very positive way.

Rose said...

PS - I've not heard the name Ann mentioned before...

:) :)

Anonymous said...

Someone called me Heraldo, Jane or Ann the other day. I know who Heraldo and Jane are, at least their fake names from reading the local blogs. I don't know who any of them are in real life. Do you?

Rose said...

Not that I know of - and in "Jane's" case, not that I would care to. When they call you Jen or Jennifer they would be referring to Jennifer Kalt.

It's interesting that they are afraid to use thier own names or attach their names to their opinions, since they are such strongly held opinions.

Anonymous said...

I can't speak for Jane or Heraldo, but as someone with strong and fairly controversial views myself, I can understand why they don't want their identities known. Most people who use their real names have to censor what they say to avoid unpleasant consequences. They may want to run for public office some day :)

Anonymous said...

Or...maybe they already have.

Rose said...

In that case, why would we care about them, if they don't have the courage to stand up behind their own words, why would we care about them or their opinions at all? Or trust them to stand up to the heat that an elected politician must endure?

You're describing a coward,

Rose said...

Look - it's one thing for you, for Jane, and for any number of anons who place comments. It is another thing entirely for the blogger to do it anonymously.

An anonymous Garden Blog, what's the diff, but for someone like heraldo, he/she/it/they ought to stand up and say this is who we are. They don't want to, and there's a reason for that. The primary reason would appear to be that they fear that if you knew who they were you would think less of their opinion. It's not fear of being discovered, or of retaliation at work, I don't think.

Anonymous said...

A little bit like Mark Lovelace not wanting anyone to know what slim pit he was bathing in or that he was a secret agent paid to influence the general plan for his benefactors. Wouldn't want anyone to know the connection between all the nasty little (educational) groups and Mark now would you Jane. Kay Backer and Mark Lovelace are the same save one differance. Backer is honest.

Anonymous said...

An opinion should carry its own weight, Rose. Who says it isn't important. I suspect the reason you want to know who these people are is to make trouble for them.

Who is the Humbug anyway? No concerns there?

Anonymous said...

Why don't you say the same about the Mirror then?

Anonymous said...

GMTA 1:23x2 :)

Rose said...

Heh. 1:23

We'll see. Do you know how many blogs have come and gone since I started? remember Halitosis? He had a good blog going and it disappeared. There was the anonymous lady from Arcata, appeared to be a business owner, who had a good blog going, and disappeared.

Let's see if they last. Then, maybe.

I liked Buhne's anonymity, I like Carson Park's and Eko's psuedo anonymity, I like Fred and Eric's, and Ernie's, and Greg and Carol's being upfront.

With heraldo? Eh, I am just intensely curious.

Anonymous said...

Just come out and tell the truth Rose. You want to know who Heraldo is because he has the most local popular blog, you don't like his views and you would like to shut him up. All that talk about ethics is just BS when you don't hold another political blog with an anonymous owner to the same standards.

Anonymous said...

please reverse local and popular :) Sometimes my fingers get ahead of my brain.

Rose said...

Why would saying who (he/she/it/they) is shut him up? That makes no sense whatsoever. It hasn't shut Joel down. It hasn't shut any of the people named above down.

So I don't like all of his views - it might surprise you to know I actually agree with heraldo on some things. So what? Heraldo doesn't like mine either. So what?

This is getting comical. It really matter to you, doesn't it?

But tell me - why would me finding out who it is shut him down?

I just don't think that would happen in a million years.

Anonymous said...

People are entitled to privacy even when voicing their opinions. People who feel other's identities should be revealed have their own motives and I doubt that curiousity is one of them. We don't talk about religion or politics in the work place for good reason. It isn't conducive to a good work place environment. Exposing your political views can have negative consequences and having your anonymous public comments exposed can have the same result. Call it what you want. Your hypocrisy is duly noted.

Rose said...

Where do you work that you can't voice your opinion?

You want to talk to ME about the consequences of exposing your political views? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

You're a nutcase. Dare I say, JANE? Have you been assigned Rose duty today? Too funny.

Anonymous said...

LOL I'll be Jane today to make you happy. You are so hung up over who someone is it is no wonder you can't make a coherent argument.

Anonymous said...

I can see why no one bothers with your blog. Better coverage of the issues and much better discussions on several others and without all the paranoia over who someone is or isn't.

Rose said...

Let's make some productive use of your time.

How many employees does "Humboldt Baykeeper" have? Staff and contract employees.

Anonymous said...

Rose,as you are told often you have one of the best blogs in Northern Calif. The gutter snips hate you because you hit them right where it hurts. So answere the question Jane and clones. What's the diff between Lovelace and Backer?

Anonymous said...

2:27 the only thing that makes us happy is knowing the truth that Mark was a paid lobbiest and that it kills you that we know. 2:47 your skill of the lie is slipping. How do you spin this one? You're here on the best blog with Rose. ROTFLMAO. Janal,take a laxitive and let the poop about Lovelace,Evans,EPIC,HWC,Baykeeper,NEC,and your other"educational"groups roll.

Anonymous said...

I had Rose Duty but called in sick

Howlsatmoon said...

Hi Jane, Jenn, Ann...damm I hope #1, you're not Heraldo....and #2, you're kinda cute, cuz I really enjoy reading your thoughts on the subject.....well, unless it was that other anonymous, or that other one, or maybe that other one?

Oh, 7:40 Anon? Funniest thing this evening....I mean it. I'm going to have abeer and write something even more meaningless than this...

Hi Rose.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 1:36 Heraldo is a chick, remember that.

Howlsatmoon said...

Anon 1:36 is a Feminine sort? Oh goodness, I do so hope that I haven't offended....I do so apoplogise, just the tenor sounded so....P.A.male...yannow?

Thanks, 8:01. I beknight..oops, or beknightress you...."Shadow".

Got a ring to it, make the chain make more sense.

Piece, out

Anonymous said...

I went to a political pasta party the other day. Usual suspects.Two hopefuls from the 3rd were there. I talked to both. It was very refreshing to hear some honest talk. I find that very attractive. Paul pitino will get my vote. I hope you will pass on the suck and jive big PR show of the other guy.

Anonymous said...

So, okay - a Rodoni blog and a Clendenen blog both twist Estelle Fennell's commentary on the loss of timber jobs. To me she was saying she could have done better to help the workers rather than just claim helplessness a-la Rodoni.

Rose said...

Really? Or maybe she has no real idea what the Supervisor's role is.

At any rate - hasn't Bonnie been there for almost 20 years? How many Supervisor's have come and gone since the 70s when the Mills were being forced to close down?

No-one could have stopped what happened here.

And some of the same people who now profess to care about the timber jobs have been the most callous and derisive towards timber and mill workers. They still are. Just look at almost any post on heraldo and see the put downs of millworkers, of people in Fortuna...

And, frankly, the people Estelle is aligned with are STILL the job-killers, the ones who have no regard for say, the dock workers, preferring trails over employment.

That attitude prevails, especially in Estelle's arena.

But politicians always have to say they'll put a chicken in every pot.

Anonymous said...

Blaming trail supporters for the geologic and economic nonviability of the railroad makes even less sense than blaming Rodoni for the PALCO job losses.

Anonymous said...

mmmmwhat about the HARBOR, 8:11...
Notice you didnt bring THAT one up and chose to stick with the trails...

Rose said...

8:11 - what I'm talking about is the overall anti-job mindset. Not the railroad, really, though I guess that figures in, yeah - I'm talking about suits that delay the dredging that keeps the shipping channels open, about all the rhetoric that was against the dock workers during the last election, the lack of support for the Unions (especially by the very politicians who run for Union endorsements when they are running for office, because it makes them look good.)

It's about the fights over every timber harvest plan, it's about fighting the removal of a tree that will make the highway coming up here safer and more able to bring in supplies and goods, it's about restrictions and fights for everyone who tries to create something, the Marina Center being the most contentious and visible.

You do have to wonder where the attitude comes from - is it because there's so much pot money? I tend to discount hat, but maybe so.

Anonymous said...

We are spending many thousands of dollars every year to dredge the bay. Haven't you noticed? Humboldt Bay is too far from rail and interstates to be economically viable as a deep water port, especially when there are several with better facilities and on railheads. But that won't stop you from blaming environmentalists. If we weren't so anti-job we would move Humboldt Bay to a more convenient location, RIGHT? Or maybe we would change the geology of the Eel River Canyon? Damned lazy environmentalists!

Rose said...

So what's an environmentalist?

It is often used as a derogatory term. But it shouldn't be. Why is it?

Is what you are really talking about the predatory litigants?

Are those the ones you view as the "true" environmentalists?

'Cause most people I know who work on the land, go backpacking, horseback riding, kayaking, people who recycle, people who live normal lives consider themselves to be environmentalists. But you don't.

For the purposes of discussion, let's separate out the meanings.

Anonymous said...

Environmentalist: Noun. One who advocates for or works toward protecting the natural environment from destruction or pollution.

Rose said...

M'kay. So average people don't qualify.

So is an environmentalist necessarily an activist?

Do they have to be affiliated with one of the many orgs?

Anonymous said...

Average people can advocate or work to protect the environment which would make them environmentalists. Of course you don't have to be affiliated with an organization. Being an outdoor enthusiast alone, however, does not make one an environmentalist.

Anonymous said...

How elitist can one be...

Contgratulations, 1049 you must be very proud of yourself, perched atop your ivory tower...

Sorry to disappoint, but other groups that you more than likely do NOT approve of such as the buckeye conservancy, Ducks unlimited and many many others, are environmentalists as well...

Anonymous said...

How elitist can one be...

Contgratulations, 1049 you must be very proud of yourself, perched atop your ivory tower...

Sorry to disappoint, but other groups that you more than likely do NOT approve of such as the buckeye conservancy, Ducks unlimited and many many others, are environmentalists as well...

Anonymous said...

If you think my comment was elitist you must an imbecile.

Rose said...

So are there levels? Like High Priest? Cardinal? Do back to the landers qualify?

Anonymous said...

Good thing you aren't the arbitar of of who is or isnt an elitist, imbecile or environmentilist, 413...have fun in your tower...have any cake for us average folks?

Anonymous said...

Now my friends you are seeing first hand how f#*#@*g out of their minds these"enviromentalists" are. Not surprising.

Anonymous said...

4:13 posted the definition of an environmentalist and then stated that anyone can be an environmentalists and doesn't have to belong to any organization. From from that you concurred that 4:13 was an elitist and is trying to be the arbitir of who is or isn't an environmentalist. You are either an imbecile or are just pretending to be one.

Anonymous said...

8:28 put that pipe down,dude. You can't read,can't think and certainly aren't making any sence. But hey,you're probably an enviromentalist. ROTFLMAO at you dope head.

Anonymous said...

8:28 put that pipe down,dude. You can't read,can't think and certainly aren't making any sence. But hey,you're probably an enviromentalist. ROTFLMAO at you dope head.

Anonymous said...

8:28 put that pipe down,dude. You can't read,can't think and certainly aren't making any sence. But hey,you're probably an enviromentalist. ROTFLMAO at you dope head.

Anonymous said...

Posting the same paragraph 3 times indicates that you may be the one who needs to put the pipe down. It might help your reading and logic as well.

Anonymous said...

That would be crack pipe in your case.