Sunday, March 30, 2008

Fitna, the movie.

Anon.R.mous posted it.
Live Leak pulled it after being threatened. (You can see what they had to say on Anon.R's post)
YouTube pulled it, at least the first part.
Fred has posted it.
He got it from Nobody's Business.
Nobody's Business got it from Google who has not yet caved in to the pressure.
You can also find it on The Liberal Blogger: here.
An interesting post about it here.
And another here, at the Gates of Vienna: Why “Fitna”?
All of us who care about free speech should post it as well.
Here is the embed code: (just close the space(s) between the first and last angle brackets < and e, and d and >, < and /):
< embed style="width:400px; height:326px;" id="VideoPlayback" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="" flashvars=""> < /embed >

Here's another:

ht: Wollf


  1. thank you for posting this, rose. for the longest time, i have scolded friends and family for their anti-islamic beliefs.

    they'll all be happy to hear me say these words:
    "i was wrong."

    God save us.

  2. Rose, you do Muslims an injustice by not showing equivalent horror done by US forces or our puppet state in the Middle East, Israel. You aren't showing children hit by F-16 fighter jet strafing, or cluster bombs. You aren't showing Iraqi kids fried as collateral damage to our invasion.

    In short, this is just more anti-Muslim propaganda without addressing WHY Muslim fanaticism happens.

  3. There's no excusing people who blow up buses and pizza parlors. There's no excusing people who take an innocent like Nicholas Berg and saw his head off on camera. There's no excusing killing women for any of the numerous offenses they do, whether it is having a boyfriend or adultery, walking with a male companion who is not your father or husband or showing your face. There is no excuse for the extreme intolerance of that religion, Stephen, my friend. None.

    We are all, and the Israeli people are all, willing to live in peace with people of any denomination. This nation has shown that. We are all proof of it.

    But we should not let our tolerance make us weak, or excuse depravity of the kind these people perpetrate ON THEIR OWN PEOPLE. The mass graves did not come from us. they came from Saddam, and others.

  4. Stephen I spent 2 weeks in Israel last April. I toured the entire state and spoke to countless people about America and Israel's neighboring states. Everywhere I went I was asked to please tell American's that it is not what CNN says and that we should not believe what the news says. I found wonderful people in the Jews, however the Muslims in Israel hate America especially the ones who occupy Jerusalem. They hate the Jews as well. If you could see how they treat us over there you may have a different perspective. If you don't buy from them they scream in your face and call us stupid americans who are war mongers. Leave us alone you stupid American's! They hate us and they hate the Jews because of their faith Stephen. They do not want freedom of speech, liberty or justice. They want the old ways where men or God's and women are slaves.
    Most of the people are so thankful to America and are so kind and grateful that you cannot leave there without fully believing in the war's that bring freedom and release from terrorism to these people.
    Did you know Stephen that if you were a Muslin in the country that Islam wants, you would end up being one of those men in the picture. Just for the few words spoken against America and her policies. Freedom of speech? Liberty? We need to be very careful, least we loose it.

  5. All you have to do is imagine, as you walk into the restaurant with your friends or family - what would it be like if you had to worry that you would be blown to bits for no reason whatsoever. Is that the world we want to live in? No, and no one here could conceive of creating a world like that. We have done the opposite here.

    If you believe in hate crime legislation, you condemn that kind of thing, whether you realize it or not.

    If you support anti-discrimination laws, in hiring, in housing, you condemn that kind of thing whether you realize it or not.

    If you believe in women's rights, you condemn the Taliban/Sharia Law whether you realize it or not.

    That is only part of what makes us good.

  6. What a bunch of hypocritical morally blind as bats comments. It's sickening to see this blatant bigotry paraded before us. This is just like Simmons at the E.R. with editorial after editorial condemning Muslims and promoting Israelis. I expect censorship will be next as it is at the E.R. where I cannot ever get a letter or column in anymore if it criticizes American policy in Israel or Israeli policies.

    Folks, I know you never want to think about it but the fact remains Israelis are not Palestinians, the vast majority of them came from Europe and America as foreign invaders, and you all have the audacity to disremember why European-Americans will go down in history as foreign invaders genociding the indigenous peoples, just as European-Jews are genociding Palestinians. You all expect the people being genocided to lie down and roll over and smile for the cameras--it ain't gonna happen, especially while the foreign aggressors behave as if they had ever right in the world to destroy weaker societies.

  7. Worldwide we need to stop thinking of ourselves as separate. But Stephen, it cannot be done when one faction has as its stated goal, to kill the others, or subjugate them. The Israelis have not sought to subjugate the Palestinians. Were it not for the killings, they would be welcomed, nurtured, and encouraged to create something more than suicide vests.

    And for those who are worried about this conversation, don't - Stephen and I have these kinds of discussion often, we both know there is little hope of swaying the other's opinion, but we hope to enlighten the other just a bit.

  8. Well Stephen apparently this is a subject that you and I disagree on. Biblically speaking you are incorrect. After the Holocaust the Jews knew they needed a homeland, the one promised and taken away from them long ago. The creation of the State of Israel can only be called miraculous. I am a Christian so I come from that point of view Stephen. You are allowed to believe as you wish and so am I. I believe the Bible to be a more accurate historical reference.
    My eyes are not blind Stephen, but I agree that someone has blinders on.
    Lets just agree to disagree.

  9. I just cannot believe that in our lifetime we are seeing a world leader talking openly about obliterating the Jews, and we, like we did once before, sit silent. We know the price of that silence. We have seen the horror of the gas chambers, the horrible pretense that the men, women and little children were told they were just going in for a shower, only to be gassed to death. Imagine the parents trying to shelter their children. Have trouble visualizing it? You can see it in the gassing Saddam perpetrated. The people trying to protect their babies and children.

    What the hell is wrong with people that they would rather hate their fellow countrymen than deal with this reality.

    You watch that Fitna movie - they are talking about liberals and socialists, democrats SPECIFICALLY. They are talking about you, they are talking about all of us, unless we bow to them. And that means, among other things, circumcising your daughters, killing your daughters for having a boyfriend, killing your mother, your sister for offenses so small and insignificant to us in our way of life....

  10. Rose, what world leader are you talking about "obliterating the Jews"?

    Ending "Israel" is not "obliterating the Jews", and you and all Islamophobics do the rest of us a great disservice by continuing to slander a whole people with lies.

    I've talked with too many Palestinians to let this lie spread by Zionists go unanswered. "Israel" is the name of the foreign occupiers Jewish nation and wanting to see the end of foreign occupation by Europeans and Americans is only a "crime" to the occupiers and their master nation, America, supplying the money and military might to accomplish this modern genocidal horror in our lifetimes.

    And those who are "Christian" and have fallen for Evangelical Zionists who want to use Jews to bring the return of Jesus, you are believing in men's myths and not God's truth which will never stand for abuse of the Spirit for territorial conquest. And anyway, European Ashkenazis, the vast majority of modern day "Jews" are only European Jewish religious converts from the Khazar kingdom that converted in the 700's AD. They have little more direct linage back to ancient Jews than Chinese Muslims do to Meccans. I am of Ashkenazi decent and know my ancestry.

  11. I am talking about the President of the Islamic Republic of Iran. HIs words and intentions are quite clear. I do not, however, believe that the Iranian people all share his views. So the question is, will they let him run rampant, as the Iraqis did with Saddam, or will they say "NO!"

    The Palestinians have said they wanted certain things. Then, when those things are finally agreed to, they say, no that's not what they really wanted after all, and they go on bombing and killing and sending their teenage sons to blow themselves up.

    Thank GOD we are not like them. They have choices, Stephen. They CHOOSE murderous aggressive evil. Until they make different choices, no sympathy for them.

  12. Stephen,
    Please consider moving to Tehran. I think you would be quite comfortable living there. Their clergy/government hates the US and Israel as you apparently do as well. I will be the first ti contribute US $100.00 toward your one way ticket. Enjoy!

  13. Both showing your bigotry. Rose, you didn't answer my question. Where did Iran's President say he was for "obliterating the Jews". Calling for the end of Israel is not the same at all and you should know better than to fall for anti-Muslim propaganda.

    All Middle East Muslims and especially Palestinians have zero, repeat, zero, reason, moral, ethical, anyway you want to slice it, for supporting foreign invaders stealing another people's country. And using lie after lie to justify this theft and genocide of Palestine. No wonder they hate us. No wonder most Native Americans have no use for European-Americans. It's called "anger", Rose, justifiable anger at invasion and occupation by foreign aggressors--the people you are supporting.

  14. Was it Jordan or Egypt that killed a ton of Palestinians? I forget. Why no outrage and anger towards them? I'd have to bone up on the history of this thing to have a real dialog with you on this one, Stephen. You have studied it,

    As far as I am concerned they lost all rights to my sympathy when they started blowing up innocent people as a routine practice - they have had the highest negotiators from all nations working with them to help work it out, over and over and over again, and when they got what they wanted, they reneged, and went right back to blowing people up. They produce nothing. They create nothing. Except suicide vests and destruction. They hold the world hostage, and they revel in it. It costs their own people their lives. It costs their society its soul. They glory in sending their teenage sons to blow up little babies, Stephen. That's not being swayed by western propaganda. That is the truth. If saying that makes me a bigot, ok. my friend. They are fortunate to have people who advocate for them so passionately. They don't deserve it, though. My opinion.

  15. I'm going to add that they lost my compassion when the Palestinian terrorsits murdered Leon Klinghoffer after they hijacked the cruise ship Achille Lauro, an attack planned by Abu Abbas.

    Nor should we forget the Iran Hostage Crisis.

  16. Oh, Rose, you list THEIR atrocities and either do not know or conveniently forget Israelis and ours.

    Do you know anything at all about who blew up the King David Hotel killing scores? Do you know who blew up the Liberty ship? Do you know anything about the massacres of Palestinians by Stern Gang Israelis? Do you know that Palestinians learned terrorism at the hands of Israelis?

    No, Jews don't strap bombs to themselves --These Days--but what about Masada, Rose? Read about Masada and then come back and tell me Masada doesn't equal Jonestown and Waco for religious madness ending up killing innocent children.

    All through WW II, Japanese had suicide bombers who had no qualms about killing Americans, children or not. As we had no qualms about killing Japanese children, German children, Iraqi children.

    War is hell, Rose, but chosing sides out of laziness to study the reasons why people on Both sides act the way they do helps no one and only spreads more hatred and bigotry because the issues are not discussed and no one learns anything.

  17. We were closing military bases following the end of the cold war. We are willing to live in peace.

    They broke the peace.

    Their attacks on us and other nations are one thing. Iran's stated intent is one thing.

    Their own inhumanity to THEIR OWN PEOPLE, Stephen, that is the inherent problem. THEIR OWN LAWS, their own religiosity that allows and advocates the KILLING of their own people, their men, their teenagers, their women, their children, their artists, their musicians, their gays, does that not disturb you?

    And I realize this discussion is mixing up Iraq, Afghanistan. Iran and Palestinians, and that some things are unique to each - the devaluing of human life seems to be almost universal in the EXTREMES of that religion.

    By no means do I believe all the people of any of those nations enjoy living under those hateful murderous thugs. But, as always, if the good people do not stand up and stop the bad guys - they are lost.

    They need help. We are providing help. War is hell, Stephen, but we are attempting to provide help, A backbone of support for those good people in those countries to stand up and take control and have a chance. That's the truth.

    Perhaps they would respect us more if we did take over their country. I don't think they understand our methods of tolerance and hands off allowing them to run their own country (into the ground if they so choose, and then we come back in and try again.)

  18. Rose, you remember the Shah of Iran? How we supported him as dictator? You see pictures of Saudi Arabia? You see the wealth of Saudi royals all over the place and see the tremendous smoldering hatred of the US right smack in the heart of SA, right there just waiting for Bin Laden and others to egg them on. This is what Muslims see: Western states led by the US using their oil, keeping dictators in place who make sure the oil revenues stay mostly in royal hands, meanwhile millions and millions of Middle easterners, most all Muslims are in dire poverty.

    Then there's Israel which only Jews, Christians from the West think is not a huge problem for Middle East Muslims. Try foreign invaders, Rose, try say Japanese coming in after winning WW II and taking all the wealth of the US and letting us scramble for crumbs.

    These people have been jerked around by Western nations for so long they have ingrained hatred now and ONLY when Westerners get over their ignorance of history and realize they've put a cancer in the Middle East, Israel, that is fucking everything up for the whole region because Israelis from Europe and America do not belong there, never have. That's the short reason why Muslims hate us and will continue to do so until Westerners understand what we've been doing to them for centuries.

  19. Stephen, do you, can you realise that the Islamic Religion wants you dead?

    They want you dead, all of your purported Ashkenazi relatives and forebears, all of my Amerind family, Rose and hers....anyone who is not a Muslim.

    I wish you luck with negotiating with them.

    I just happened to post an interview with a British Imam who explains just exactly why They want to Kill you.

    G-d Bless Israel....for the good people that they are, not the evil Zionists that you ignorantly call them.

  20. It's unbelievable that in a country which professes to have such an intelligent and open citizenry that there are those who still will not even consider to read and translate the complete text of Ahmadinejad's statement about the fate the Israel, all because of a hatred of a culture overrides any decision to seriously dissect a statement.
    George Bush and his right wing cohorts have repeatedy some would say "slipped" and continue to call this Christian led genocidal War on Terror a crusade.
    Do you think that it's fair to say that Bush wants to see and lead the destruction of Islam and the countries that follow its rhetoric simply because he has called his quest a crusade in the past ?

  21. Bush will be out of office soon. Do you think Ahmadinejad's intentions will change like magic? Do you think you can trust him at all? Are you KIDDING me?

    So because we are afraid of the word crusade, we should bow down, and let all of the advances we have made in this country, and I mean EVEN THE SMALL ONES, like dress codes, women not being allowed to wear pants, men not being allowed to wear hats indoors, having to wear veils in church, be swept away?

    Are we to disrespect the Christian religion to the point of calling a crucifix in a cup of urine art, but be afraid to show cartoons about Mohammed, or wring our hands about the Quran being defamed?

    Honestly? I'm stunned.

  22. SrEsquan....for crying out loud. "Genocidal war on Terror?"..

    Holy crap, you Folkes are turning me into a Zealot.

    I posted today an interview with an Imam explaining just why he and his want to kill you...yes, kill. You. I don't want and won't allow as long as I breathe, to let that happen.

    Now, I'm going to go and steal/borrow a video that explains what's going on in a little town called Sderot....Israel....

    Give me about an hour and check it out. It's even worse than the crap-hole that I posted this morning.

    Be safe my Sheep. Be aware.

  23. Turning me into a zealot too. Where have all the good men gone? Will it be women protecting us in the end?


    The baby boomer generation was so proud of the freedoms they enjoyed and demanded, free love, free sex, freedom to protest, freedom to speak out, shaking off dress codes and many traditions of the past.

    Why are you not HORRIFIED by these people whose traditions are so murderous and so draconian, so horrific - dehumanizing women, condemning them never to show their faces, never to work, never to choose a mate - it's not just the big things, like your religion, your sacrilegious behavior and words, your refusal to bow at noon, refusal to attend church services, it's little things.

    What are you willing to give up? What are you willing to DO, if it comes to that? Will you bow at noon and pray to Allah? We who don't want prayer in schools? We who don't want In God We Trust on our money any more? Would you kiss all this freedom goodbye?

  25. Posted it Rose...feel fre to link it you like, the more that know, the merrier.....even though it seems much scarier....

    What a horrid poet I am.

    Oh...thanks Anon 6:29. There are still a Lot of Good Men out there to protect the homefires....

    No matter what some people would prefer.

  26. And THANK GOD, Thank the GODDESS, Thank whatever spirit you do or don't believe in for THAT! Thank the men and women who DO watch out for all of us. Thank YOU, Wollf!

  27. Denmark and the Scandinavian countries are the canaries in the mine. Pay attention.

  28. Rose, thank you for putting up with the disgusting perverts that were attracted to your video of the homicidal loon.

    Wollf, thank you for pointing this out.

    "mresquan" and "Stephen" should be ashamed of themselves-- if they are capable of feeling shame.

  29. How many dead Iraqi women and children will it take to finally satisfy you?
    Oh and now for.....we have nothing to do with that!!It's their fault!!
    Rose,if you think that this is only a Bush thing,you're dead wrong.Sorry,the U.S military and the C.I.A. put the Taliban and Al Qaeda into power,now innocent civilians are the victims of that atrocity.

  30. Crap...I'm still flying high...linked another tidbit of information for you, Stevie and SrEsquan.....your "friends" are teaching their children the way of Peace.

    Islam style.

    Feel free to link again, Rose.
    Wollf....although you may find this even worse than the rest, because it's what they are taught...

  31. How many murdered, raped and otherwise brutalized people are you willing to just ignore, so you can slam those who will defend the women and children?

    Perhaps you've blinded yourself, but it's the terrorists that strap bombs on Downs syndrome women and send them to blow up other women and children.

  32. Good point Sailoreette.

    Here's the thing - perhaps the scariest thing of all - Stephen and Mark (mresquan) - are both good guys. Stephen is a friend who studies the religion thing in ways I cannot profess to understand because as far as I am concerned, well - that's a discussion for another day...

    That good guys in our own nation think the Muslim extremists will just leave us alone if we are nice to them, or understand them, that's what scares me. That they would willingly allow us to be run over.

    From what I have read, mresquan - the Taliban sprang up in response to lawlessness in Afghanistan, they controlled the populace, and brought relative safety and security. God help you if they represent safety and security. If you sign over your freedom, you lose.

    You guys always talk about us giving up our freedom with regards to the Patriot Act. What will you say if Taliban or Sharia law comes here?

    Answer, if you say anything, you will be killed.

    Here, you can criticize at will. And we do, and we love it. Treasure it.

  33. Dang typos! foxfier, formerly sailorette

  34. See islam for what it is4/01/2008 7:55 PM

    I've learned it is pointless to try to reason with 7th century goons. They simply can not comprehend how not to be violent. They will never condemn their murderous heros - the radical islamofascist butchers.

    The situation in Israel is the same. The terrorist lovers twist the facts around blaming Israel for everything. Sadly, their irrational hatred for Israel blinds them to helping themselves. You will never find Israelis with Mickey Mouse televisions shows teaching their littlest children to hate and murder. Despicable. Islam is a death cult. Everything is about force and hate and violence.

    I used to think there was such a thing as a "moderate" muslim -- but that only means a muslim who lives in a country that hasn't been taken over by muslims yet.

    Israel needs to stop giving up land and bending over backwards in every way to attain peace with these barbarians, as it will never happen. Muslims have an irrational hatred that is taught to them from birth. Child abuse, really. Sad and pathetic.

    Moderate muslims simply can not condemn radical muslims because they believe the same. The 'religion of peace' is in fact, a violent bloody death cult.

  35. I respond to both, Rose. *bow* Also simply Foxfier, if you wish. I simply wanted to make sure no-one thought I was hiding when I changed names.

  36. Iv;e been gone awhile and just had a chance to log back on. Stephen you mention Masada. Please tell me why.

  37. In this country we have Smokey the Bear teaching kids not to play with matches, to prevent forest fires.

    We do not use Mickey Mouse or a puppet show to teach little kids to kill foreigners.

  38. We do not threaten teachers with death for letting her students name a TEDDY BEAR Mohammed.

    I don't care one bit about the past history, or the what came before.

    This is now. There is no reason in this day and age, for this kind of intolerance to exist. There is no need for feudal nations. The world is smaller, we can trade at will, our money, paid for oil, makes those countries wealthy. If their leaders do not share it with their own people, why is the US to blame? What are we to do? Go in there and force them to share? Ummm, are we full circle.

    btw - nice to meet ya, Foxfier!

  39. Hey there, 8:02...Stevie the Bear brings up Masada, or מצדה, the fortress as a sleight of hand, figuring that Roses readers will glance over it and take his opinion as their own.

    "A death cult". Like Jonestown or Waco? I felt it not worth responding to.....

    The people of Jonestown and Waco had nothing to fear from the "Besiegers", had they simply left....

    The Hebrews, on the other hand, although I will agree they were Zealots, faced only certain Slavery, torture and possibly death at the hands of the Romans.

    Different time, different place, but a People who were Done. Ignorance once again. I've been charged with he same offence..heh

  40. Yes your right 8:25pm. When I saw Masda mentioned in Stephens tirade I needed more info from him. Masada was not a mere fortress but one that King Herod called his Northern Palace. Totally seige proof! What time and effort was spent by the Romans to build that road to the top of that mountain. It took them years and when they finally achieved the goal they found the handful of Hebrews dead by their own sword rather to be taken as payment to the Roman soldiers.
    So Stephen what did you mean by your reference of Masada?

  41. The message of Masada is that some things are worth dying for. That's the message I have always taken from it. Horrible. Tragic.

    When pushed, you will find that you also believe some things are worth dying for, Freedom. Freedom of religion. Freedom of choice. Freedom of assembly. Freedom of Speech. Freedom to love who you choose.

  42. Most respectfully, dear Rose, I must disagree....but simply with the use of your pronoun....

    Can't really use the "universal" you in this thread. There are more than likely two that don't believe that anything is worth the ultimate price.....

    But the freedoms you speak of? Oh they would be glad to have Me expend my Life for their freedom to espouse nonsense and unfounded moonbattery....all the while cursing the fact that Men of my Barabarous ilk existed....

    Almost makes me smile...G-d bless 'em.

  43. There is always something worth the ultimate price. Imagine your children being taken away from you murdered before your very eyes. Think about your loved ones being starved and worked until they fall dead in front of you. Give me liberty or give me death? Count me in.

  44. Here's my question for Stephen and mresquan -

    If I could make YOU the Palestinian ruler tomorrow, and you had ultimate power. What would you do?

    More specifically, what would you have them do?

    Keep strapping on the suicide vests?


  45. Rose,I really take no side in that conflict.Won't go into it now.
    "What would you do ?"
    Ensure that weapons manufacturers are held accountable for supplying both sides with arsenals capable of destroying each others livelihoods.certainly won't end it,but it'd be a big step.

  46. Non, n'no no no - you're the Palestinian leader. What would you do? Let's assume you want to see peace in the region, what would you do? Or, if you don't subscribe to the desire for peace, and think the Palestinian aggression is just fine, what would you do?

    You're king, you have ultimate power over the Palestinian people (not over Israel, not over the US or Egypt, just your people...)

  47. Me ! Me! about tell them with your "ultimate power" to stop firing Kassam homemade missiles, stop suicide bombing...yannow, just


    Then it ends. Israel would turn on the lights, send aid and help build an infrastructure that worked.

    Oh, sorry...won't work. Killing is their way, isn't it?

    Oh, and Sr.Esquan? Not very many "weapons manufacturers" involved...random shootings of real guns isn't the problem.

    It's homemade munitions for the vest bombs, Kassams...all made out of stuff that would make their miserable existence better if they used it for it's G-dly purpose.

  48. Exactly right, wollf. Maybe that's what the 'turn the other cheek' maxim means - and maybe the Palestinians would find the wisdom to do that simple thing, put down the arms, and trust, they would find that goodness came their way. And they could stop killing their own sons.

  49. If I was a Palestinian leader I would form a public relations branch immediately and take the real history of Palestine to Americans, demand colleges and universities teach the real truth of how Israel was formed, how Western powers brokered the deal through their control of the UN in 1947, and how until the European and American Jewish invasion of Palestine is understood by Europeans and Americans as an invasion, and that "terrorism" is in the eyes of the invaders and not the indigenous population, who are defenders of their homeland.

    Rose, you are one of the European invaders of Native America and do not understand what it is like to have your homeland stolen from you and yourself branded a "terrorist" if you are angered at the killings of your loved ones by the foreigners and want to do something about it. You have swallowed the invaders propaganda line because you are European and prejudiced against Arabs and Arab mentality.

    You cannot demand any ethical stance to be taken by those who you are killing, Rose. And every Israeli F-16 jet and every dollar spend erecting the Israeli version of the Berlin Wall is being paid for by us Americans, so when you criticize your victims who is really to blame here? Who's really not acting responsible for a situation they created 60 years?

  50. So are we to continue to exist as a world of tribal enmity and factions, instead of reaching towards the goal of one people, with tolerance for differences, with no need for borders and holding onto the notion of homeland?

    Sorry, education camps for Americans, and more self flagulation is not going to stop these people from killing - their own people and ours. It won't stop the honor killings, won't remove the burkhas, won't help a single child in those countries go to school.

    Bowing to this extreme and murderous excuse for a religion will not do anyone in this world any good whatsoever.

    They rail against us because we allow it and act guilty in response. You don't see 'em railing against other nations that have done far worse.

    We should not provide one more dime of support to Palestine until they STOP BOMBING INNOCENT CIVILIANS.

    Try again - you are the Palestinian leader, how do you stop them from killing, and bring about peace? How do you improve their economic situation? How do you foster a culture of creativity instead of destruction? Innovation instead of - the opposite?

    Maybe it cannot be done. Maybe they are so immersed in their victimhood mentality that it will never change. Tragic, if true.

    They are no shining example of humanity at this point in time. Who would aspire to be one of them?

  51. Rose, I am sorry but I am not going to continue arguing with your bigoted mindset. You really need to talk to some real live Palestinians of which there are several in our area to learn that you are not even trying to understand where Pals are coming from. You accept the CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY that our country contributed at the end of WW II which was the absolutely immoral takeover of a whole people's homeland by foreigners. Instead of Palestinians getting their homeland back after centuries of Ottoman rule, the British, they found themselves the victims of a new set of European foreigners, Jews. And you and people like you who have swallowed 60 years of anti-Arab propaganda, like here, where you show zero horrible mutilations done to Palestinian children by strafing and cluster bombs, you only show the angriest militant atrocities of Muslims, never Americans, never Israelis, and then have the gall to stand back and act self-righteous.

    How does it feel for a Palestinian family to be crushed to death by a Catapiller armored tractor especially made to destroy Palestinian homes with people inside?

    Rose, please, I ask you again, stop being a bigot and learn why Muslims under constant attack by US forces, CIA manipulators, and rank poverty behave badly.

  52. I don't think we, or the Israelis will walk into a pizza parlor and blow everyone inside to bits, or get on a bus and blow everyone inside to bits, or take over a school gymnasium, or sever the heads of school girls and leave them on the doorstep as a warning.

    It is not as if they are ignored, there have been - how many - peace summits, with the highest leaders and the best minds in the world available to assist in achieving peace.

    It is a shame that the Palestinian people have been sold out by their leaders, and continue to be held hostage by their leaders, and continue to be subjected to this culture of death by their leaders. They deserve to live as we do - with freedom of speech, assembly, religion, and all that we are blessed to have.

    All they have to do is put away the bombs. You will find the rest easy.

    If believing that makes me a bigot, so be it.

  53. See, Stephen, and I know you know this - I believe humans are intrinsically good. On the whole. I believe you have to eradicate the bad ones, no question. But humans are intrinsically good.

    And I believe in one race, the human race. No factions. No tribes. Equality. Human equality.

  54. Rose, I am sorry but I am not going to continue arguing with your bigoted mindset.

    That is possibly one of the rudest things I have ever heard. Try taking the load of lumber out of your eye, first.

    You are defending people who are violating every agreement made, breaking every olive branch, attacking innocents and even using *ambulances* to attack the innocent.

    It's quite obvious that you are too mentally or emotionally attached to your views to even be able to respond to the question of what you would change other than to attack everyone else's views and absolutely ignore the horrific acts of those who you claim to defend.

    How does it feel for a Palestinian family to be crushed to death by a Catapiller armored tractor especially made to destroy Palestinian homes with people inside?

    Put down the koolaid and walk away, dude.
    You're about half a step away from claiming that the media is controlled by a Jewish cabal that keeps the truth from reaching us.

  55. Heh....a self proclaimed and pointedly self loathing Ashkenazi, the "Chosen" of G-ds "Chosen People".

    If you truly are from the heritage you claim, you are a sad state of emotional detachment from a People who have been persecuted since before the time of Moses.

    Oh, yeah, they were there a Long time prior to the sixty year old creation of the Israeli State.

    I can't speak Roses mind, but this is not an anti Arab situation.

    We, the royal we, despise a "religion" that espouses death to All Unbelievers. You, very, very much included. Your "Pally" friends, if they are muslim, might just remove your head if you were in their country.

    I have played in the "Sandbox" over there. I think you should make the trip yourself, to see with your own eyes.

    I'll throw in another $100 for Leonidas travel fund for you.

    I am Peshkotomakati myself, and I agree completely with Miss Rose and Foxfier....even if they're

    "European invaders of Native America"....trite, Mr. Bear.

    Just place your head firmly back in the sand. That way, you won't see the arc of the sword...


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