HUMBOLDT COUNTY COURTHOUS SUPERVISORS’ CHAMBER, FIRST FLOOR
TUESDAY, DECEMBER 09, 2008 9:00 AM
◼ Humboldt County BOS Agenda
11:00 a.m. - BOARD OF SUPERVISORS
Page 1: 1. Southern Humboldt "Concerned Citizens" Group Presentation on the Adverse Environmental Impacts Associated with Illegal Marijuana Grows in Humboldt County. (Supervisor Rodoni)
Summary: For some time now, a group of concerned citizens in Southern Humboldt have been meeting to help educate and
bring awareness to County officials and members of the public concerning illegal marijuana grows and the
devastating impacts these grows have on the environment; specifically, diesel spills/leaks into drinking water and
streams, as well as potential hazards from wildfires.
Robert Sutherland, Jessie Hill and David Booth, representing the “Concerned Citizens” Group will address the
Board of Supervisors giving background information on the groups activities and offering possible solutions for
consideration such as development of an informational brochure; a fuel tank registration program; and support for
a carbon tax on excessive fuel consumption.
RECOMMENDATION: Hear the presentation and take appropriate action, if necessary.
◼ Page 2: attachment
◼ Page 3: A letter from Ken Miller (who ne-v-er prescribes Pot)
Imagine a grow "...in which plants are bathed in, and thrive under, natural sunlight conditions..."
Better yet "Climate change and mass extinction make growing (pot) indoors, whether on the grid or with a diesel generator, indefensible/ Electricity from fossil fuels (natural gas -LNG, hydro-dams, and coal), or nukes is inefficient, produces greenhouse gases, and its overuse justifies more fuel consumption..."
He says we must grow outdoor pot "...as if our lives depended on it."
I think the man is certifiably insane at this point. It's worth reading to see how he bundles in every doomsday scenario and bugaboo... poor guy, all those demons.
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h/t: DT?
Johanna was hand picked by Miller.WOW!!That's quite a shock to read.
ReplyDeleteLet me see if I have this straight, because someone you don't like (Ken M.) is speaking out in opposition to diesel dope you are now in favor of it?
ReplyDeleteTwisted logic, but at least you're consistent.
Is that what it is? Or is it in favor of Vilica style grows?
ReplyDeleteNo, mresquan, when this comes before the Board, Rodoni will not be on it.
Lovelace and Clendenen will. Of course, Lovelace campaigned saying he was against indoor grows, so, it'll be interesting to see where this all leads.
What's in it for Miller?
Get real guys. Ken Miller writes (for profit) the 215 "recomedations" and the "sick" people grow marijuana in houses with PGE providing eletricity and in underground bunkers with a diesel generator supplying the juice. Either method is not good for the environment.
ReplyDeletePGE puts out commercials encouraging everyone to save or conserve electircity but they really don't give a damn as long as they get paid.
Ken Miller is part of the local marijuana culture or industry just like the ohter "pot doc's". Shame on him and anyone that supports him.
yup DT = who else! = chuckle!
ReplyDeleteLatest is that the "Diesel Dope" people didn't know his letter was going in and didn't know he had anything to do with it.
I don't know if I belive them or not. One of the 3 peresenters is really ferious that Millers stuff was put in the Sups package with out their knowledge.
Funny thing about Miller is that he was on the 03 BOS MMJ TF and NEVER mentioned anything neg about indoors. He wanted to get something in about "Diesel Dope" even back then. (FYI in all fairness)
But his most recent 'out rage' against indoors - I wonder at what his motives are.
Looking back at the 03' MMJ TF - he didn't say squat against indoors, he wanted some 'non-checks - checks' ie wanted 'someone' to check on the installs of the electical BUT NOT the city or county!
He also was very into getting rid of Paul G's 1,500 watt thingy.
You see Paul G's guidelines were very stringent. Everyone knowss the 99 plants and goes "oh my 99 plants" but that also was 'governed' / 'regulated' by a 100 sq ft - and indoors by a 1,500 watt limmit.
Rose (et al) you can grow in 10,000 or a million sg ft - but if all youo got is 1,500 watts - you'll get the exact same yeild if you got a million sq ft - or say 10 sq ft = its the same = its the WATTAGE that controles production not plant count or sq ft!
So when the Sq Ft thingy came up Miller BALKED at that - and was one of the people who got it removed.
So now his sudden intrest in out door and making indoor illegal sure don't set with that --
My own thoughts on the 'why Miller is suddnly 'found gawd' on indoor to the extect he has are these two items:
a.) his rec's are found on damn near every grow that burnt down in the last year or so - put in papers and TV "MILLER POT DOC" - I know he didn't like that - he's pertty much a 'scardy cat' when it comes to stuff like that
so in my mind his frist reason is "PR" = get his name away from the 'supporter of indoors'
and B? = his home is on the ocean bluff that is falling into the water - and the Army Coups of Eng. or someone is spending TONS of money to save that block in MacVill along the beach where its going down. There is a sign that its closed to threw trafic expcet people who live there -
So I think he's 'found gawd' or his version of same, like Scrooge haunted by ghosts - frist his 'wonderful get pot to everyone' idea blew up - into flames - quite litterly branding him as the reason for all the fires! And his own home is being sucked into the ocean which he sees as the 'affects of global warming' ...
Which of course is because of all those Rec_s he wrote -- causing the world to go up in flames and fall into the ocean ...
yup I think he's gone off the deep end too - his data is unfounded
But what's new with that?
he's got that 'I'm a doctor and I'm therefore smarter then all of you" crazyness going for him ...
His data on production of greenhouse gases is way off, then when someone called him on it - he went into a deep rant bring in items of no barring!
-- For instance do you know what the #1 PG&E user is in Arcata? Who uses over 1/2 the PG&E used in that town?
Fire and Light!!! - source the info from the City Council record. Why isn't Miller raving about them? Do we really NEED more expecive glass plates and do dads?
The Beer Cooler at the ccoop uses more then a bunch of grow houses, but is he or anyone going "do we really need that much cold beer?"
the local coffee rosters use HUGE (and I mean HUGE amounts of PG&E enough to power BLOCKS of grow houses) = do we 'need' them -
If Miller was really looking into this - he'd fine many real poulters - that do much worst to the envorment then indoor lights.
So I asume he's be driven over the edge by the inter deamons of his writing all those Rec_s and also his home falling into the sea.
Really a sad case, I can see him being taken away by the men in the white coats some time soon!
DT most oviouly!
How did Ken Miller get on the original medical marijuana TF or committee anyway?
ReplyDeleteGee too bad about Kenny's house sliding off into the ocean or whatever. What's t hat word ... Karma ?
Always good to hear from you, DT.
ReplyDeleteFunny thing is, the money to shore up the bluffs was secured within a couple of weeks of the storm. Then it took what, a year? Two? for Ken and his neighbors to sign the indemnity. Somehow I doubt he appreciates what has been done. But he need only look up at Big Lagoon to see what his fate should have been.
And, no, Bob, sorry, there's always something more involved when Ken starts spinning like a dervish.
And it is always going to benefit Ken in some way.
There's always been something about his coveting property that doesn't belong to him.
I can't quite put my finger on it, but it is there.
DT
ReplyDeleteWhere do you come up with the notion (because it certainly is not a fact) that the beer cooler at the Coop uses more electricity than several grow houses?
And coffee roasters could power "blocks" of grow houses?
C'mon.
The thing about Ken Miller is, he is no Norman Borlaug.
ReplyDeletePhysician, first do no harm.
Miller panders to the lowest basest human qualities.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteDT
Where do you come up with the notion (because it certainly is not a fact) that the beer cooler at the Coop uses more electricity than several grow houses?
And coffee roasters could power "blocks" of grow houses?
C'mon.
12/29/2008 7:40 AM
The montly bill at the Old town choc and coffe is over $6,000! The beer cooler at the coop, every 2 feet uses as much as a home does. How many feet of beer cooler is there at the coop in Acata? Oh it wraps around one whole side of the store, where is the "out rage" at that?
What is the #1 user of PG&E in Arcata - if someone wants to BAND something - or protest it?
Fire and Lite uses over 1/2 the PG&E in Arcata total town use. What do we need with little glass items over priced for?
Source Arcata City Council for Arcata info. and Eureka city council for Eureka info.
The icecream parlor "Bonbonares" (sp?) monthly bill is $3,500+ how much 'icecream' do we need. Think how small their coolers are compaired to the COOP and the other markets that sell it?
I mean comeon Miller, isn't sugger and milk BAD for people, why not get on the band wagon about that?
(chuckle)
DT
A bit on out doors vs. indoors and handling et al - hell those people in so hum don't want their homes looked at - how the hell we going to certify their cannabis crops?
ReplyDeleteof coourse this only matters to "real sick" people (see below) and so I guess that is why Miller wouldn't care about data like this!
An evaluation of the quality of medicinal grade
cannabis in the Netherlands
http://www.cannabis-med.org/english/journal/en_2006_01_1.pdf
check out table 2 - think of how the cannabis is handled, wash your hands? Animals in the grow, or dry or trim areas?
E. Coli can only come from animals, and more specifically animal feces. In an indoor space, a dog simply wagging its tail could act as a pathway to contamination. Fertilizers containing manure products are another vector. Manure and compost teas if they are not aerated properly can become a major problem, especially when they are used as foliar feed.
=============
Aspergillus Fumigatus (AF) is a fungus whose spores are all around us. It is one of the most common Aspergillus species to cause disease in immunocompromised individuals. Healthy people will generally not react unfavorably to it, but there are circumstances where this pathogen can lead to serious illness or death.
==============
E coli is a bacteria that lives in the intestines of most animals. Most strains of E.coli are harmless, but there are a few that can severe food poisoning. E. coli induced illness can be fatal for children, older people, or very sick patients.
What diseases does it cause?
gastroenteritis, urinary tract infections, neonatal meningitis, hæmolytic-uremic syndrome (HUS), peritonitis, mastitis, septicemia,
Gram-negative pneumonia
Who should avoid it? Everyone
===============
Aspergillus Fumigatus (AF)
What diseases does it cause?
Invasive Aspergillosis, Aspergil, CPA, ABPA, Allergic Fungal Sinusitis
Who should avoid it? Patients with HIV/AIDS, Leukaemia, recent organ transplants, tuberculosis, Cystic Fibrosis, Chronic Granulomatous Disorder, or any immune compromising illness should avoid contact with aspergillus.
So, pot faces the same possible contamination problems as lettuce and spinach, apples - any produce? That does make sense. Never thought about it.
ReplyDeleteAnd you are right - they don't want their homes looked at. They don't pay taxes. They don't have business licenses. They don't adhere to any environmental regulations. They aren't covered under any agricultural guidelines, restrictions or anything.
Even legalizing it isn't going to magically fix any of those problems, but it will lower the price, make them pay taxes, remove the criminal element......
Could we abandon the 215 sham if it were legalized?
How are you doing, DT?
Chemo did NOT work - the damn thing GREW (the Lymph tumor) and joined up with other ones. My MD kept trying more and more Chemo (R-Chop) untill I had reached the limit. Nothing happened, it just kept growing (oh wonderul = see DT feeling like he's in some horror movie being eaten by a monster from the inside! Damn thing covers my whole left area from belly to leg!)
ReplyDeleteI "look" fine hale and harty, feel a 'bit weak' - and a little less hair (all over) but Chemo doesn't effect me it seems. (nor my Lymphoma.)
SOOO on to Radation! Yippy! 200 rads a day - for 20 days 4,000 rads should do it, 90% chance of clearing it up! (so I'm told)
Cept Radation isn't effecting me much either, the MD's keep asking me "well are you sick, are their any burns on your skin?"
and I go "Nope - just had a huge Mexican meal and use the hot tub all the time, no burns inside or out!"
so it goes - I AM FEELING BETTeR -= read Stronger! ... and I'm "horny" for exercise and want to get back into shape, I've been in bed for the better part of 8 or 9 months, and as the MD's don't want my weight dropping - I've been eating like crazy + NO exersize so i'm under MD's oders = not loosing a pound (UGH! = fat as a house!)
So I've started working out again (the Md's are all freaked out because they want me to 'go slow' and I don't have a 'slow' setting!)
anyway such is life ---
and it is good ...
Funny thing happned to me on the way home from the Board of Sups! (giggle) -
I was on one of the MAJOR MMJ (p215) support forums because someone had put up the T-S peice and I put my version of what went down there. Including that 'some how' 'someone' (miller) had made 'leaps' of saying "out door" was "orgainc" and that all 'indoors' should be banned.
and that the persenters were asking for a huge tax on indoors.
Now one thing I don't know if I've mentioned is that their is a HUGE price diffrence in Our doors and Indoors: Indoor fectchs about 2x of what out doors dose. This is because of 2 basic factors, a.) its not as 'good' (potant, clean, healthy et al) b.) so much floods the market and with the Mex_ Cartels growing it - the price has dropped way down.
Okay so I'm on this National MMJ list - citing what I felt had happened and that the indsutry needs 3rd party oversite like any AG (or any production industry for that matter).
A Miller Minon climbed on and took offence at what I was suggesting. The very idea that So Hum people were dirty and used less then steller methods for growing, drying, processing et al was crazy to him, and that I'd lump them all together as 'greedy growers' ...
We went around for a while, then I citeed the club in Arcata, the one that gives top grade cannabis away to catistrphoicly ill peoople of low income (under 20K a year) and would he be willing to get togehte rwith the OTHER "non-greedy" growers in So Hum to provide these people with their needed MMJ. I belive this club 'only' gives away a couple (2 or 3) pounds a week, of high grade, so when can I tell them they can expect delivery from all these 'non-greedy growers' down there?
Also, of course, the cannabis will be inspected and tested as all the cannabis is at that club for contaiments, mold, mildew, e-coli, and other bactiera, and toxins from pesticeds and fungiseds.
These test kits are availble on the web - and the USDA even puts out simple to make home ones - that they could use in So Hum - the 'clean non-greedy growers' that is.
(he was really into being upset that I lumped them all together, 'stigmatized' I belive the word he used was!)
Well he 'checked right out' after I asked him when the delivery from the 'non-greedy so hum growers' would be to the poor cancer, ms and Aids patients - in fact (I went on to ask) how come there was even a need for some one in Arcata to put together a club to dispence to the needy - as so much cannabis is grown in So Hum - why aren't the poor 'real sick' patients (catistrphoic and poor) being served by all the 'wonderful growers' of So Hum.
... and he ended up with "Best of luck; I'm going back to my status as a reader here."
Chuckle so how DOSE one tell a 'greedy' from a 'non-greedy' So Hum grower?
I belive the Greatful Dead said it once, "I can tell your future by whats in your hand!"
Somehow it applys at least from where I stand ...
DT
Are you a candidate for any experimental strategies?
ReplyDeleteThe one that interests me is the theory that if you get an infection, it stimulates your immune system, and it can then attack the cancer - I know they are working on that.
There's also research about childhood diseases imparting certain immunities or killing off cancerous cells before they even go cancerous.
Man, I wish I had a magic wand!
Too onry do have any 'real' problems - goal for 08' was to beat the city of arcata and cancer (Lymphoma) I've just about done both, I feel great - think the radation worked. I'm working out and the city is calling me to removed the law suit.
ReplyDeleteBAHAHHAHHAHHAAWAHHAHA!
I'm 'bad' now - soon (with in 3 months) I'll be totally intolrable.
3 months I get my 'clearnce' on the Lympohma and I'm already dong 1/2 an hour on my bike and other exerzises - I'm going to "huck out" once again -
I told my MD (the chemo one) when he told me I was "out of shape" that I'd gladly go a few rounds with him (this was in the middle of chemo) and see who was 'in or out of shape' - he said I wasn't in his weight class - (he's in the 185 and I fight at 225) - I told him I'd 'cut weight' as soon as he'd let me - and we'd find out THEN!
Last radation is Monday - unless a meeting over runs it - then Tusday - after that I'm cutting weight down to 185 just to step in the ring with him - chuckle! -- Poor doc woun't know what hit him! (telling ME I'm out of shape !!! = gawds MD's their all nuts!)
======= back to MMJ -------
We're working on a major push on MMJ as soon as O'bama's court leglizes it, 'we' were only 13% of the votess from a full states rights to MMJ bill passing last year.
We expect it this year, 'problem is' that with legilzation all the 'forms' will have to be met.
Like YOU Rose can not grow and sell Roses from your home (if you live in a Res_ neghborhood).
And if you live on AG land you'd need permits and business lic. All these fools who have been making a living at MMJ growing, will need to comply or become fodder for the DEU (drug Erad. Unit) Srgt. Wayne Hanson and Peterson's group.
No Grow permits, and I don't mean p214 paperwork - I mean AG inspection (like if you grew grapes or roses or anything else = DOL (dept of Labor) and AG and everyone else drops by to make sure your doing everything the right way, and paying your workers properly.
I expected it, called for it durning the 2003 Board of Sups MMJ TF. No one listend I'm still told - all the time - on verious MMJ sites how 'crazy' I am to even consider these things.
I tell you with in DAYS of MMJ being legal - a states rights isssue - the Dept of Labor and OSHA and ADA will be down on the clubs like white on rice - and they (the clubs) will have to prove where they get the stuff and that its produced the proper way.
Out go the 'home growers' and illegal hill growers from that market.
I know a few people who are watching this in verious parts of the state - and perpariing for complaince. Shops and producers, saddly few are truely heading the warning - most are 'oh why do you care about that stuff."
We'll see what happens- its NOT some "new laws" - its laws that have been around decaids and in some cases centrues - payroll and ag and zoing and with holding - all that stuff has HUGE penaltise involved with it.
For instance, someone 'trims' the pot (cannabis) how are they paid?
Do they fill out a w4 when they come to work, do they get a w2 at the end of the year?
One 'doge' is to call them 'contract workers' BUT if you look at the IRS site for what a 'contract' worker is - the trimers in so hum do NOT fall under that catagroy. In fact the IRS even spells out quite clearly that 'pickers and packers of produce that are only hired at certain times of the year are NOT contract workers."
There is a whole list of items that one has to conform to to be a 'contract worker' - trimmers do NOT qualify by any streach of the imaginaiton -
so completely OUT SIDE of p215 or MMJ or even MJ (cannabis et al) every 'grower' in SO HUM just on that one issue can be busted and FINED HEAVLY by the IRS for tax evatation and the DOL (dept of Labor) for impoperly paying and NOT with holding workmans comp and SS et al from their employess checks!
Okay where is that 'trimming done' is it done in a 'dedacated work space'? OR is it done with in the same space that is a lving space the rest of the year - mostly in living spaces ..
as you drive down any AG area - you'll see lots of EMPTY SHEDS - these sheds are used ONCE A YEAR = for harvest for cleaning or procing the harvest. Pulling leafs or what ever off the crop and placeing them in boxes.
These sheds are called 'dedicated work spaces' - you can't do the above in an area used for anything else (like living or keeping live stock or anything) there for the empty sheds!
How or why is cannabis any diffrent> = its NOT ... so another 'ding' on MMJ is that its 'dryed / hung and trimmed' in living spaces.
Now none of this is inforacble with out someonee on site to 'chtech them' - but when it comes to sales - to clubs - it shuts all that down at AT LEAST pulls the gulf between LEGAL p215 pot - and the 'oh we grow for sick people = see our recomendations we got from Miller for $120 a peice?"
Doge out of the way - now their back to 100% illegal - which the goverment can then romp and stomp all over - as it pleases - who ever the DA is - because the production with out proper equement - in this case - docuemmnted pay roll and dedacated work spaces - makes what they do illegal ...
I could go on and on about Dept of Labor and OSHA and ADA and such violations that the current production of cannabis has with in it -
Sure this year and maybe the next - will still be in flux but that GRAND MAN ROGER - had it nailed when he said "LEGILZE IT" ---
And the hippies all want it too - they just don't know the TOTAL can of worms they are openingv when they ask for it ...
... LEGALIZATION means REGULATION - my new saying is
"... and they will BEG for the good old days of the DEA and CAMP because they think those were bad - they only took a smmall % out - where as the full force of the regualtors - they will take them ALL OUT!"
Watch - 2 to 3 years after MMJ is legalized at the Fed level - whatch what the state does ...
Prices won't drop - less someone drops them - but big business et al? = never - it won't be the prices that screw up pot for So Hum it will be the Regulators from all the verious govermental departments! (tee hee) the area that blew by housing and all the rest - brought down by legal pot - some sort of amazing karma in there I'm sure!
DT
PS Arlen Spector (SP?) the old Rep guy who's giving O'bama all the trouble over his apointments (not saying that's right or wrong - just as a way to say who I'm talking about) - just beat the same Lymphoa I got for the 3rd time - he wrote a book about the frist time he beat it - when he was working with Bush Sr. ...
this time he smoked pot = one more vote to leglzation! = tee hee = then heads will roll ...
I was at the board of sups durning the presentation - the great un washed were there - it was so funny in a sick way - their talking about 'health' while rubbing dirt off their bare sandled feet - I was watching this person spit on their hand and rub dirt of their feet - and wonder "Hum do you do that while you handle pot?"
there is this 'thing' this phrase used by the DOL (dept of labor) its "Resnable Expectations" ...
When oou (ROSE) go by a spice or an herb for cooking - a 'bottle of spice islands, or shilling or McCormick or what ever - basil or Tyme or "Itallan Seasoning mix"
yoou have what the DOL calls 'resonable expectaitons" that it was produced is a given way.
you don't even nessessarly THINK of it - when you buy it - but its there - subconsiouly but there -
that the
people who grew, dryed, ground, processed it were clean
in fact I imagine that as I wrote this in your minds eye you were seeing some 'stainless steal' imagery of what production of herbs are like - clean - even some people in lab coats taking samples back to make sure its that clean and mold and disease free -
Samples of the bulk product that come in tested for contamiinest before their marked recived - or paid for - by the producers - testing all the way though the proccess to inhsurance cleanlyness and purity
how or why is cannabis any diffrent?
its not - and once its legall some will survive and most won't - at least as legal producers - and the whole 'p215' thing that some call a 'shame' will wilt under the regualtions that are in place for any other herb.
Ask how many so hum growers have attended gardening classes, have a Master Gardner rating?
How many have attended classes in food handling, and if the 'claim' medical exemtion (p215) then have they attended HIPPAA classes?
Its endless - and legization won't bring in NEW laws - just the old ones will be enough!
A Rose by any other name ---
DT
All good points.
ReplyDeleteAnd, yes, especially where you are dealing with "medicine" you should have the guarantee that it doesn't carry - e.coli, or any other contaminant that might adversely affect you.
I would imagine contaminants like that could kill an aids patient, for example.
It's going to get interesting.
Hey, man, I am glad you are feeling better.
ReplyDelete