She sees her hopes and dreams for the future in his mirrored facade. She imagines that he shares her dreams, and more than that, he will wave a magic wand and make it all better.
She sees what Bob sees, himself, his own high ideals and hopes and dreams and goodness, reflected back at him.
I'm not sure how to respond here. How about if I play the part assigned: The Fool. It's true, I have hope for a better future. Is that a naive thing, the mark of a fool? Perhaps. Is it foolish to believe that people are basically good? Maybe, but I hope not.
Is it foolish to believe that our government, formed "of the people, by the people and for the people," might serve some purpose other than funding a war machine, keeping people in line and maintaining the status quo? Probably.
Sure there's a cynical streak in me that tells me that hope is a trick, an illusion held out to keep the downtrodden docile -- I hope it is not so.
I may be wrong, but I suspect your reason for posting this clip was to mock this woman who took her kids out of school to see Obama because she believes in hope, the one-word essence of his campaign. No, she's not articulate, but she got his marketing message, simplistic as it was. She believes in her heart, "He's gonna help me." She believes things can change for the better.
What did the other side offer? Boil down the McCain/Palin message to one word and it's fear. It's not a hard thing to sell.
So, Rose, tell me this, what do you see reflected back at you?
I see the opposite of what you see - I do not see America the shitty country, oppressor of the world. I see a great country, that risks and sacrifices much to help the rest of the world at every turn, I see people working to improve, to succeed, not the down in the mouth attitude that you all embrace, as if you have been put upon because the guy down the street has a bigger house than you - but then you allow yourselves to be led by people who have exactly that - telling you to wear the hairshirts, and cut YOUR energy uses while they jet around, What I see on your side in unbridled hypocrisy, what I see in McCain, what I have ALWAYS seen in McCain, is a good man, with integrity, and who truly DOES reach across the aisle and work with all sides, unlike Obama who is a product of the Chicago machine whose record shows he never crosses over, all the spin and delightful marketing to the contrary.
The sad thing is that the good man with integrity basically sold his soul to the party machine. The victim of smears hired the very people who smeared him to run a smear campaign against Obama, to play on people's fears.
You say, "You really don't know anything about Obama," which echoes the basic storyline of the McCain campaign: "Who is Barack Obama?" The Six Degrees of Separation from Kevin Bacon game suggesting that we are about to elect a terrorist, or an Arab, or a Black Liberation zealot, or a Socialist, or what have you, was all we heard.
Why? Because explaining that the war is a good thing is a hard sell. And rolling out the classic Republican line saying regulation is bad for all of us doesn't play well given what's happening to our economy. An honest debate about the wisdom of maintaining the Bush era tax cuts for the rich and the old "trickle down" theory was out of the question. Instead we got a simplistic disingenuous line telling everyone "He's gonna raise taxes."
You somehow see it as a negative thing that people want change. I don't. Even McCain recognized that -- he tried to portray himself as an agent of change -- again a hard thing to do for someone fighting to maintain the status quo.
Why was the whole campaign about Obama? Let's face it, both sides were out introduce us to someone who is mostly just an image. One side portrayed him in a positive light and the other did its best to make him scary, so people would fear this vague change he proposes. I never heard anything about "America the shitty country, oppressor of the world," -- I'd say that's you projecting your own negativity onto something positive.
"what I see in McCain, what I have ALWAYS seen in McCain, is a good man, with integrity, and who truly DOES reach across the aisle and work with all sides,"
Even John Hagee,who Katrina on gay people!!Yes,this country needs the integrity of an man who proudly accepts Mr.Hagee's support.
I bet the spoiled little snot has a cell phone and gets racial hate texts all the time. NOT! She is as foolish as she is weak butting her hopes in an Obama vision of craddel to grave government run society. There's a change comming baby and slackers will be smiling with their hands out. Like lambs to the slaughter they will willing sell all our rights and all our freedom.
Right wing paranoia is a depressing thing. Makes you want to get up and vote against such a bunch of self-defeatists. Their awesome message is hate, tax cuts for the most comfortable, hate, war, cheap oil, hate, cheap coal, minimum wages, hate, hysteria, hypocrisy, more hate, honor and duty and patriotism from the low and middle income classes, hate, hell, and high water.
Bob said: "She believes in her heart, "He's gonna help me." She believes things can change for the better."
She said very plainly what she believes, Bob. She believes she is not going to have to work to pay her mortgage or buy her gas because she believes that Obama is going to do it for her if she just helps him (get elected). That's what she said. But you're right. The other side, as you call it, can't & won't offer her that.
It's kind of useless to argue the point, because it's clear you and dozens of right wing bloggers are projecting your own meaning into this little clip, but you are misquoting this symbolic woman.
What she says is, "I won't have to worry 'bout putting gas in my car, I won't have to worry 'bout paying my mortgage. You know, if I help him, he's gonna help me."
You know nothing about her, yet you've managed to twist her words and turn her into your stereotype of the dreaded welfare mom, a classic target of old school right wingers.
And now, says Rose, "faith" is suspect. You already belittled hope. All that's left is charity. And God knows that's just the same as welfare, right?
She isn't running for President, Robin, Rose. But, bless her heart for making the right choice. Maybe if she read your blog, Rose, she would vote for Obama......TWICE!
You're right, Bob. She did say "worry" not "work". I hear it plainly now that you've pointed it out. Thanks. That makes all the difference in the world.
Dred, you ignorant "slut" You Castro luv'n brothers might just get the bullshit you've been sniveling for all these years. I'd laugh about it and you if it weren't so damn painful to see real freedom turning into a Pelsosi/Obama/Frank socialist vision. In other words a sewer.When and if you ever see the truth it will be to late for this once great republic.
... because it's clear you and dozens of right wing bloggers are projecting your own meaning into this little clip, ...
Uhhhhhh, Bob. in case you didn't notice, and you clearly didn't, those aren't right wing bloggers - they are, in fact, DEMOCRATS. Self described CENTRIST DEMOCRATS. Clinton supporters, mostly, who have NEVER VOTED REPUBLICAN in their lives. But they are doing it now and cheering about it.
And btw - I don't see her as the classic welfare Mom, that didn't even occur to me.
What she is is the embodiment of what I hear from people who support Obama... when he is elected the sky will always be blue, when he is elected this will happen, when he is elected he is going to do this and that...
Really? And what has he ever done to show you that he will do that?
The expectations you all put on this guy are truly imaginable.
And you turn your back on the guy who has been there for you all along, the one who would give you his own life. Who has served you.
For hopes and dreams and fantasies - and now higher energy bills because you deserve it, you must atone for your sins and you will allow him to mete out judgement upon you. Because you believe. Higher taxes? Yes. please, a new 'civilian security force' yes please, censored media, yes please, corrupt friends? The Chicago machine? We'll pretend we didn't see that. And you are intelligent people. But believers.
Watched the video two more times and agree with Bob. She is saying that she won't have to worry about putting gas in her car.... Have to assume Obama had made a speech that assured her that the economy would do better with him in the White House than four more years of the same old way of doing things.
I'm not sure what centrist Dems you're talking about. The welfare mom analysis was in the dozens of blog posts I found misquoting Peggy Joseph saying she won't have to work once Obama is elected. Google her name, see what comes up. Welfare mother is the most polite thing you'll find, there's much worse, lots of hatred and racism out there, generated by your blogging compatriots.
Oh, come on, Bob. You read Huffington Post. You know what real hate looks like.
And, Dred - she's saying she won't have to worry - because when Obama is elected, cars won't run on gas anymore, why they will glide through the air, and every day will be a clear summer's day. The air will be fresh, like a dream come true.
The REALITY is he has already STATED that he will make energy prices skyrocket because that will 'encourage' her to conserve, and will 'encourage' alternative energy businesses to replace gas - how they're going to do that under his increased tax policies is not a thought that occurs to her.
She believes.
What his record shows he will do when he is handling other people's money - the Annenberg Challenge, Rezko - these things are not things she is looking at or thinking about, because she believes. The fact that he will raise her taxes, raise her energy bills, take her money and dole it out to causes his friends support is not in her universe. Because she believes. He is transcendant. Better than God.
Cars aren't going to run on gas anymore? Cool! Wasn't McCain associated with the Keating five? Didn't he and Tom Delay deny immigrant workers in American Samoa their basic rights? Hasn't McCain deregulated drug companies, banks, and corporations? Isn't his Iraq War rhetoric amoral. Wasn't his choice for Vice President insulting to women who think their reproductive organs should not be mandated territory of the US Government.
So, do I believe the world will magically change to a bright shining place day after tomorrow? No. I'm a realist. I doubt that the election will have much effect on my gasoline costs, and despite the latest round of fear mongering, I don't think any action of the president will have a lot of effect on my electric bill either.
But will things be different? I hope so.
I was watching the beginning of a Frontline episode on the election earlier. It started with Obama's speech about his roots and his oft-repeated quote saying "I am my brother's keeper." I see that as basic to his vision and marking a key difference from classic conservative (Republican) philosophy.
I've somehow ended up on a few right wing mailing lists. A note this morning included a piece by Robert Romano titled "The Virtue of Selfishness"
Romano begins with a quote:
"John McCain and Sarah Palin they call [my tax plan] socialistic. You know I don’t know when, when they decided they wanted to make a virtue out of selfishness." -Senator Barack Obama (D-IL).
The real question surrounding Barack Obama’s tax plan is not whether the ultimate moral virtue is to act to preserve one’s own well-being, a debate that Ayn Rand provoked with her collection of essays, “The Virtue of Selfishness,” where she described that the exact meaning of selfishness was “concern with one's own interests.”
***
Romano goes on to question just who will actually get a tax cut (like you, Rose, he doesn't trust the Dems).
Anyway this got me thinking about the deep differences between the left and the right. Now for some, the notion that "I am my brother's keeper" equals "Socialism." Others see a virtue in selfishness and want government to reflect that virtue.
A quick reminder for those who've forgotten where that phrase "brother's keeper" comes from. It's from Genesis, and the story of the brothers Cain and Abel. After Cain murdered Abel, God asked him where his brother was. Cain's insolent reply: “I know not; am I my brother's keeper?”
Cain's words have come to symbolize people's unwillingness to accept responsibility for the welfare of their “brothers” in general. The basic tenant of Judeo-Christian tradition says that we are responsibile for others. Can one of you on the right explain how right wing Christians have managed to turn that around and now see selfishness as a virtue?
Funny, Bob, His brother's keeper. His brother in one interview said he lives on about twelve bucks a year.
For less than a week's wortho' mochas, Obama coulda doubled the guy's income.
His Aunt is living in poverty as an illegal alien, and Obama's campaign is "watching" her.
And, there's this:
1. Occidental College records -- Not released 2. Columbia College records -- Not released 3. Columbia Thesis paper -- "not available" 4. Harvard College records -- Not released 5. Selective Service Registration -- Not released 6. Medical records -- Not released 7. Illinois State Senate schedule -- "not available" 8. Law practice client list -- Not released 9. Certified Copy of original Birth certificate -- Not released 10. Embossed, signed paper Certification of Live Birth -- Not released - in fact, release is being fought in 3 cases 11. Harvard Law Review articles published -- None 12. University of Chicago scholarly articles -- None 13. Record of baptism-- Not released or "not available" 14. Illinois State Senate records--"not available"
Who thinks selfishness is a virtue? Oh, by Obama's and Lakoff's definition that's anyone who doesn't want to pay higher taxes? To keep their non-working 'brothers' in higher style?
Is that what you are talking about?
While you support your wife, child and perhaps parents, perhaps maintaining two or even three households, how many more people are you supposed to support? Beyond paying 50% in taxes, plus sales tax, and assorted fees to the government....
Your premise is flawed.
The real question is do you believe in personal responsibility over leeching.
Maybe he is the second coming of Jesus. Maybe he realizes that anything that can be spun during an election will be. Maybe he is just being extra careful. Being careful to protect himself from right-wing attackers as part of his campaign strategy is a smart move. Or maybe he is the second coming.
This brother - has he ever met him? Who raised this brother? They come from different worlds. They are strangers from very different cultures. Brothers or strangers? Is this "brother" a good man? Didn't Barack Obama have a cousin that was in a struggle for the leadership of Kenya? You can live very comfortably in Kenya for very few dollars -or used to. You seem to have fewer facts than accusations, Rose.
BREAKING - BREAKING - MOST UNVETTED CANDIDATE IN HISTORY - Tuesday, November 4, 2008 FBI asked questions on Rezko land deal “Agents and I talked about payoff, bribe, kickback for a long time, though it took them only a short number of minutes of talking with me while looking at the appraisal to acknowledge what they already seemed to know: The Rezko lot was grossly overvalued,” Mr. Conner told The Washington Times Monday.
“Rezko paid the asking price on the same day Obama paid $300,000 less than the asking price to the same seller for his adjacent mansion,” he said. “This begs the question of payoff, bribe, kickback.”
In a wrongful-termination complaint filed last month in the Circuit Court of Cook County, Mr. Conner said his appraisal of the Rezko property, held in Rita Malki Rezko's name, was replaced with a higher one and he was fired when he questioned the document.
...Mr. Conner is asking Mr. Obama to make his lower appraisal review of his house public, saying it is relevant to his pending complaint. ...
Obama said: “We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded...”
My mother lives next door to Amy and me. She gets by, partly on a pension and some investments my father left behind, but most of her income comes from Social Security. She's 88 so she has a fair number of medical bills, which are paid for by Medicare, which I assume you oppose since it's a socialist program, same as Social Security. Do you think she's a leech?
I could point out that in some other culture she'd be set adrift on an ice flow once she was no longer a productive member of society, but I don't think you're quite that cold-blooded.
Face it, paying taxes is a fact of life. Do most of our taxes go toward "leeches" as you call them? No. The lion's share, 56 percent of Federal Income Tax goes to support the military industrial complex. In the state of California, the biggest piece of the pie goes to support education, which if I remember right, is how you dad earned his living. Is that an area where we should cut back even further? Or would you prefer we do away with public schools (another socialist invention) and let everyone take personal responsibility for teaching their kids.
I could go on, but Amy's done watching To Kill a Mockingbird and wants me to watch The Daily Show. I need a laugh, so that's it for tonight...
Heh. yeah. Promising to bankrupt coal companies oughtta cost your boy the east coast. people out here don't know what that means, but they do, hundreds of thousands of jobs, reduced revenues for schools and local governments - and higher utility bills to go with the higher gas bills and higher tax rates, a new civilian security force...
You know it is amazing how people turn. Just a short time ago, people would have been screaming at the thought of higher utility bills - we already have people DIE in the cold eastern winters because they can't afford heat, but now they take it as if it is their due.
How beaten up has the populace become that they will tolerate that crap. ESPECIALLY from people like multi-million dollar house Gore, and Obama, and Edwards. You sacrifice while they revel in it. You feel guilty for them.
If there is to be a solution to a warming planet, great effort and some sacrifice will be required by everyone. Gore, Obama, and Edwards have been messengers. I'm not guilt tripping for anyone. We are experiencing global warming from atmospheric carbon dioxide. If we do not find clean alternatives to fossil fuel we all will pay the ultimate price. And we must start now. We can't afford to wait. It is not a hair shirt when we all work together. We can't do this individually. Some solutions can only come from government mandates. This is one of those times where our Government should create an environment for research an development by taxing fossil fuels. It would force auto manufactures to build fuel efficient cars and would drive r&d funding for clean fuel powered alternatives. Same story on coal. Tax it! It will make alternative fuel technologies viable and will attract R&D money. Jobs will be created. Prices will come down as innovative new technologies replace older technologies. No hair shirts needed. Just some of that good old American spirit to meet big challenges.
Dred - (what a joke of a name) you guys don't give a crap who you kill and run over to push your closeminded agenda. Don't give a shit about old folks dying in their homes for lack of heat. Don't give a shit about high gas prices cutting our ability to put food on the table. Oh no. You just need your own way. You refuse to listen to the other side. Instead of disagreeing - you try to destroy and silence those that don't duck step with you. Frankly, I think that limits your ability to think straight and discover alternatives to you limited point of view.
Taxes collected on fossil fuels could be used to to fund incentives to purchase fuel efficient electric hybrids, repurchase gas guzzlers, update home insulation and windows, and fund free mental health clinics for angry bloggers.
Then you pay the taxes dipshit. I don't think my family ought to go without food so someone else can purchase a hybrid, update insulation and fund mental health clinics for assholes like yourself Dred.
A stranger was seated next to a little girl on the airplane when the stranger turned to her and said, 'Let's talk. I've heard that flights go quicker if you strike up a conversation with your fellow passenger.'
The little girl, who had just opened her book, closed it slowly and said to the stranger, 'What would you like to talk about?'
'Oh, I don't know,' said the stranger. 'How about nuclear power?' and he smiles.
'OK, ' she said. 'That could be an interesting topic. But let me ask you a question first. A horse, a cow, and a deer all eat the same stuff - grass. Yet a deer excretes little pellets, while a cow turns out a flat patty, and a horse produces clumps of dried grass. Why do you suppose that is?'
The stranger, visibly surprised by the little girl's intelligence, thinks about it and says, 'Hmmm, I have no idea.'
To which the little girl replies, 'Do you really feel qualified to discuss nuclear power when you don't know shit?'
My question to you Dred is how do you feel qualified in discussing energy/power when you don’t know shit?
Because I'm reading "Hot, Flat, and Crowded" by Thomas L. Friedman.
Horses and cattle are grazers - they eat grass. Deer are browsers. Cattle and deer are ungulates with four chambered stomachs and they regurgitate and chew a cud. On the other hand, horses have a single chamber stomach and require better quality graze land because they don't re-chew their food. Cattle are forced to eat corn meal mixed with protein that comes from waste byproducts from poultry meat packers - things like blood feathers guts and chicken shit. It is thought that this kind of feed program will fatten beef without spreading bovine spongiform encephalopathy and is endorsed by the American Beef Producers Association who Fund a powerful lobby in Washington.
So, what did you and that little girl talk about. She probably sensed you were a Republican and that you would try to control the conversation. Didn't you bring a book to read?
Her comments are irrational. Just like your paranoia.
ReplyDeleteShe sees her hopes and dreams for the future in his mirrored facade. She imagines that he shares her dreams, and more than that, he will wave a magic wand and make it all better.
ReplyDeleteShe sees what Bob sees, himself, his own high ideals and hopes and dreams and goodness, reflected back at him.
Oh, Lord.
ReplyDeleteHere's my nose. Lead me.
Yep, rely on the government to fix what ails you - including your own incompetence to be self sufficient;
ReplyDeletethat'll work ...PDT. (poor dumb thing)
I'm not sure how to respond here. How about if I play the part assigned: The Fool. It's true, I have hope for a better future. Is that a naive thing, the mark of a fool? Perhaps. Is it foolish to believe that people are basically good? Maybe, but I hope not.
ReplyDeleteIs it foolish to believe that our government, formed "of the people, by the people and for the people," might serve some purpose other than funding a war machine, keeping people in line and maintaining the status quo? Probably.
Sure there's a cynical streak in me that tells me that hope is a trick, an illusion held out to keep the downtrodden docile -- I hope it is not so.
I may be wrong, but I suspect your reason for posting this clip was to mock this woman who took her kids out of school to see Obama because she believes in hope, the one-word essence of his campaign. No, she's not articulate, but she got his marketing message, simplistic as it was. She believes in her heart, "He's gonna help me." She believes things can change for the better.
What did the other side offer? Boil down the McCain/Palin message to one word and it's fear. It's not a hard thing to sell.
So, Rose, tell me this, what do you see reflected back at you?
It's not to mock her, Bob. Nor you. It is to illustrate a point.
ReplyDeleteYou really don't know anything about Obama. His people have made damn sure of that.
His record is very clear though. And it belies the beautiful image you have in your mind.
You didn't answer the question, Rose.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you see?
I see the opposite of what you see - I do not see America the shitty country, oppressor of the world. I see a great country, that risks and sacrifices much to help the rest of the world at every turn, I see people working to improve, to succeed, not the down in the mouth attitude that you all embrace, as if you have been put upon because the guy down the street has a bigger house than you - but then you allow yourselves to be led by people who have exactly that - telling you to wear the hairshirts, and cut YOUR energy uses while they jet around, What I see on your side in unbridled hypocrisy, what I see in McCain, what I have ALWAYS seen in McCain, is a good man, with integrity, and who truly DOES reach across the aisle and work with all sides, unlike Obama who is a product of the Chicago machine whose record shows he never crosses over, all the spin and delightful marketing to the contrary.
ReplyDeleteRight on Rose - Ditto from me.
ReplyDeleteThe sad thing is that the good man with integrity basically sold his soul to the party machine. The victim of smears hired the very people who smeared him to run a smear campaign against Obama, to play on people's fears.
ReplyDeleteYou say, "You really don't know anything about Obama," which echoes the basic storyline of the McCain campaign: "Who is Barack Obama?" The Six Degrees of Separation from Kevin Bacon game suggesting that we are about to elect a terrorist, or an Arab, or a Black Liberation zealot, or a Socialist, or what have you, was all we heard.
Why? Because explaining that the war is a good thing is a hard sell. And rolling out the classic Republican line saying regulation is bad for all of us doesn't play well given what's happening to our economy. An honest debate about the wisdom of maintaining the Bush era tax cuts for the rich and the old "trickle down" theory was out of the question. Instead we got a simplistic disingenuous line telling everyone "He's gonna raise taxes."
You somehow see it as a negative thing that people want change. I don't. Even McCain recognized that -- he tried to portray himself as an agent of change -- again a hard thing to do for someone fighting to maintain the status quo.
Why was the whole campaign about Obama? Let's face it, both sides were out introduce us to someone who is mostly just an image. One side portrayed him in a positive light and the other did its best to make him scary, so people would fear this vague change he proposes. I never heard anything about "America the shitty country, oppressor of the world," -- I'd say that's you projecting your own negativity onto something positive.
You have the clearest example possible staring you right in the face. It is called Paul Gallegos,
ReplyDelete"Change" is not always a good thing.
"what I see in McCain, what I have ALWAYS seen in McCain, is a good man, with integrity, and who truly DOES reach across the aisle and work with all sides,"
ReplyDeleteEven John Hagee,who Katrina on gay people!!Yes,this country needs the integrity of an man who proudly accepts Mr.Hagee's support.
I bet the spoiled little snot has a cell phone and gets racial hate texts all the time. NOT! She is as foolish as she is weak butting her hopes in an Obama vision of craddel to grave government run society. There's a change comming baby and slackers will be smiling with their hands out. Like lambs to the slaughter they will willing sell all our rights and all our freedom.
ReplyDeleteRight wing paranoia is a depressing thing. Makes you want to get up and vote against such a bunch of self-defeatists. Their awesome message is hate, tax cuts for the most comfortable, hate, war, cheap oil, hate, cheap coal, minimum wages, hate, hysteria, hypocrisy, more hate, honor and duty and patriotism from the low and middle income classes, hate, hell, and high water.
ReplyDeleteDreadful Anonymous
Bob said: "She believes in her heart, "He's gonna help me." She believes things can change for the better."
ReplyDeleteShe said very plainly what she believes, Bob. She believes she is not going to have to work to pay her mortgage or buy her gas because she believes that Obama is going to do it for her if she just helps him (get elected). That's what she said.
But you're right. The other side, as you call it, can't & won't offer her that.
And those are the key words. "She believes."
ReplyDeleteThe new faith.
It's kind of useless to argue the point, because it's clear you and dozens of right wing bloggers are projecting your own meaning into this little clip, but you are misquoting this symbolic woman.
ReplyDeleteWhat she says is, "I won't have to worry 'bout putting gas in my car, I won't have to worry 'bout paying my mortgage. You know, if I help him, he's gonna help me."
You know nothing about her, yet you've managed to twist her words and turn her into your stereotype of the dreaded welfare mom, a classic target of old school right wingers.
And now, says Rose, "faith" is suspect. You already belittled hope. All that's left is charity. And God knows that's just the same as welfare, right?
She isn't running for President, Robin, Rose. But, bless her heart for making the right choice. Maybe if she read your blog, Rose, she would vote for Obama......TWICE!
ReplyDeleteDreadful Anonymous
You're right, Bob. She did say "worry" not "work". I hear it plainly now that you've pointed it out. Thanks. That makes all the difference in the world.
ReplyDeleteDred, you ignorant "slut" You Castro luv'n brothers might just get the bullshit you've been sniveling for all these years. I'd laugh about it and you if it weren't so damn painful to see real freedom turning into a Pelsosi/Obama/Frank socialist vision. In other words a sewer.When and if you ever see the truth it will be to late for this once great republic.
ReplyDelete... because it's clear you and dozens of right wing bloggers are projecting your own meaning into this little clip, ...
ReplyDeleteUhhhhhh, Bob. in case you didn't notice, and you clearly didn't, those aren't right wing bloggers - they are, in fact, DEMOCRATS. Self described CENTRIST DEMOCRATS. Clinton supporters, mostly, who have NEVER VOTED REPUBLICAN in their lives. But they are doing it now and cheering about it.
And btw - I don't see her as the classic welfare Mom, that didn't even occur to me.
ReplyDeleteWhat she is is the embodiment of what I hear from people who support Obama... when he is elected the sky will always be blue, when he is elected this will happen, when he is elected he is going to do this and that...
Really? And what has he ever done to show you that he will do that?
The expectations you all put on this guy are truly imaginable.
And you turn your back on the guy who has been there for you all along, the one who would give you his own life. Who has served you.
For hopes and dreams and fantasies - and now higher energy bills because you deserve it, you must atone for your sins and you will allow him to mete out judgement upon you. Because you believe. Higher taxes? Yes. please, a new 'civilian security force' yes please, censored media, yes please, corrupt friends? The Chicago machine? We'll pretend we didn't see that. And you are intelligent people. But believers.
I thought you were a moderate democrat voting for Obama, Adam. What ever.
ReplyDeleteYou know what I notice about this little propaganda piece - the camera has left the young womans face when the words in question are spoken.
Parse that, Rose.
Dreadful Anonymous.
Watched the video two more times and agree with Bob. She is saying that she won't have to worry about putting gas in her car.... Have to assume Obama had made a speech that assured her that the economy would do better with him in the White House than four more years of the same old way of doing things.
ReplyDeleteDreadful Anonymous
"Welfare Mom" didn't cross my mind when I watched the video, either, Rose. Welfare Moms don't usually talk about paying their mortgage.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure what centrist Dems you're talking about. The welfare mom analysis was in the dozens of blog posts I found misquoting Peggy Joseph saying she won't have to work once Obama is elected. Google her name, see what comes up. Welfare mother is the most polite thing you'll find, there's much worse, lots of hatred and racism out there, generated by your blogging compatriots.
ReplyDeleteOh, come on, Bob. You read Huffington Post. You know what real hate looks like.
ReplyDeleteAnd, Dred - she's saying she won't have to worry - because when Obama is elected, cars won't run on gas anymore, why they will glide through the air, and every day will be a clear summer's day. The air will be fresh, like a dream come true.
The REALITY is he has already STATED that he will make energy prices skyrocket because that will 'encourage' her to conserve, and will 'encourage' alternative energy businesses to replace gas - how they're going to do that under his increased tax policies is not a thought that occurs to her.
She believes.
What his record shows he will do when he is handling other people's money - the Annenberg Challenge, Rezko - these things are not things she is looking at or thinking about, because she believes. The fact that he will raise her taxes, raise her energy bills, take her money and dole it out to causes his friends support is not in her universe. Because she believes. He is transcendant. Better than God.
Cars aren't going to run on gas anymore? Cool! Wasn't McCain associated with the Keating five? Didn't he and Tom Delay deny immigrant workers in American Samoa their basic rights? Hasn't McCain deregulated drug companies, banks, and corporations? Isn't his Iraq War rhetoric amoral. Wasn't his choice for Vice President insulting to women who think their reproductive organs should not be mandated territory of the US Government.
ReplyDeleteDreadful Anonymous
So, do I believe the world will magically change to a bright shining place day after tomorrow? No. I'm a realist. I doubt that the election will have much effect on my gasoline costs, and despite the latest round of fear mongering, I don't think any action of the president will have a lot of effect on my electric bill either.
ReplyDeleteBut will things be different? I hope so.
I was watching the beginning of a Frontline episode on the election earlier. It started with Obama's speech about his roots and his oft-repeated quote saying "I am my brother's keeper." I see that as basic to his vision and marking a key difference from classic conservative (Republican) philosophy.
I've somehow ended up on a few right wing mailing lists. A note this morning included a piece by Robert Romano titled "The Virtue of Selfishness"
Romano begins with a quote:
"John McCain and Sarah Palin they call [my tax plan] socialistic. You know I don’t know when, when they decided they wanted to make a virtue out of selfishness." -Senator Barack Obama (D-IL).
The real question surrounding Barack Obama’s tax plan is not whether the ultimate moral virtue is to act to preserve one’s own well-being, a debate that Ayn Rand provoked with her collection of essays, “The Virtue of Selfishness,” where she described that the exact meaning of selfishness was “concern with one's own interests.”
***
Romano goes on to question just who will actually get a tax cut (like you, Rose, he doesn't trust the Dems).
Anyway this got me thinking about the deep differences between the left and the right. Now for some, the notion that "I am my brother's keeper" equals "Socialism." Others see a virtue in selfishness and want government to reflect that virtue.
A quick reminder for those who've forgotten where that phrase "brother's keeper" comes from. It's from Genesis, and the story of the brothers Cain and Abel. After Cain murdered Abel, God asked him where his brother was. Cain's insolent reply: “I know not; am I my brother's keeper?”
Cain's words have come to symbolize people's unwillingness to accept responsibility for the welfare of their “brothers” in general. The basic tenant of Judeo-Christian tradition says that we are responsibile for others. Can one of you on the right explain how right wing Christians have managed to turn that around and now see selfishness as a virtue?
Funny, Bob, His brother's keeper. His brother in one interview said he lives on about twelve bucks a year.
ReplyDeleteFor less than a week's wortho' mochas, Obama coulda doubled the guy's income.
His Aunt is living in poverty as an illegal alien, and Obama's campaign is "watching" her.
And, there's this:
1. Occidental College records -- Not released
2. Columbia College records -- Not released
3. Columbia Thesis paper -- "not available"
4. Harvard College records -- Not released
5. Selective Service Registration -- Not released
6. Medical records -- Not released
7. Illinois State Senate schedule -- "not available"
8. Law practice client list -- Not released
9. Certified Copy of original Birth certificate -- Not released
10. Embossed, signed paper Certification of Live Birth -- Not released - in fact, release is being fought in 3 cases
11. Harvard Law Review articles published -- None
12. University of Chicago scholarly articles -- None
13. Record of baptism-- Not released or "not available"
14. Illinois State Senate records--"not available"
Why?
Interesting, I ask a basic philosophic question and your answer is a list pulled from one of your fellow right wing blogs.
ReplyDeleteIn essence, you simply repeat the central question of the McCain campaign: Who is Barack Obama?
Ask me that question again in 24 hours and I'll have a better answer for you.
You mean your question about selfishness, Bob?
ReplyDeleteWho thinks selfishness is a virtue? Oh, by Obama's and Lakoff's definition that's anyone who doesn't want to pay higher taxes? To keep their non-working 'brothers' in higher style?
Is that what you are talking about?
While you support your wife, child and perhaps parents, perhaps maintaining two or even three households, how many more people are you supposed to support? Beyond paying 50% in taxes, plus sales tax, and assorted fees to the government....
Your premise is flawed.
The real question is do you believe in personal responsibility over leeching.
Maybe he is the second coming of Jesus. Maybe he realizes that anything that can be spun during an election will be. Maybe he is just being extra careful. Being careful to protect himself from right-wing attackers as part of his campaign strategy is a smart move. Or maybe he is the second coming.
ReplyDeleteDred
Well, Hillary, McCain. Palin and ALL the other candidates turned over theirs. I guess The Second Coming is exempt. Blinders. On.
ReplyDeleteacchhh. It doesn't matter anyway they say. California is a lost cause. They say. It's over already.
This brother - has he ever met him? Who raised this brother? They come from different worlds. They are strangers from very different cultures. Brothers or strangers? Is this "brother" a good man? Didn't Barack Obama have a cousin that was in a struggle for the leadership of Kenya? You can live very comfortably in Kenya for very few dollars -or used to. You seem to have fewer facts than accusations, Rose.
ReplyDeleteDred
BREAKING - BREAKING - MOST UNVETTED CANDIDATE IN HISTORY - Tuesday, November 4, 2008
ReplyDeleteFBI asked questions on Rezko land deal
“Agents and I talked about payoff, bribe, kickback for a long time, though it took them only a short number of minutes of talking with me while looking at the appraisal to acknowledge what they already seemed to know: The Rezko lot was grossly overvalued,” Mr. Conner told The Washington Times Monday.
“Rezko paid the asking price on the same day Obama paid $300,000 less than the asking price to the same seller for his adjacent mansion,” he said. “This begs the question of payoff, bribe, kickback.”
In a wrongful-termination complaint filed last month in the Circuit Court of Cook County, Mr. Conner said his appraisal of the Rezko property, held in Rita Malki Rezko's name, was replaced with a higher one and he was fired when he questioned the document.
...Mr. Conner is asking Mr. Obama to make his lower appraisal review of his house public, saying it is relevant to his pending complaint. ...
Obama said:
ReplyDelete“We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded...”
What's that about, Bob? How do you spin that?
My mother lives next door to Amy and me. She gets by, partly on a pension and some investments my father left behind, but most of her income comes from Social Security. She's 88 so she has a fair number of medical bills, which are paid for by Medicare, which I assume you oppose since it's a socialist program, same as Social Security. Do you think she's a leech?
ReplyDeleteI could point out that in some other culture she'd be set adrift on an ice flow once she was no longer a productive member of society, but I don't think you're quite that cold-blooded.
Face it, paying taxes is a fact of life. Do most of our taxes go toward "leeches" as you call them? No. The lion's share, 56 percent of Federal Income Tax goes to support the military industrial complex. In the state of California, the biggest piece of the pie goes to support education, which if I remember right, is how you dad earned his living. Is that an area where we should cut back even further? Or would you prefer we do away with public schools (another socialist invention) and let everyone take personal responsibility for teaching their kids.
I could go on, but Amy's done watching To Kill a Mockingbird and wants me to watch The Daily Show. I need a laugh, so that's it for tonight...
One of us will be very disappointed at the end of this day, Rose. No one is feeling like this election is in the bag, yet.
ReplyDeleteDred
Heh. yeah. Promising to bankrupt coal companies oughtta cost your boy the east coast. people out here don't know what that means, but they do, hundreds of thousands of jobs, reduced revenues for schools and local governments - and higher utility bills to go with the higher gas bills and higher tax rates, a new civilian security force...
ReplyDeletewake up! Wake up!
You know it is amazing how people turn. Just a short time ago, people would have been screaming at the thought of higher utility bills - we already have people DIE in the cold eastern winters because they can't afford heat, but now they take it as if it is their due.
ReplyDeleteHow beaten up has the populace become that they will tolerate that crap. ESPECIALLY from people like multi-million dollar house Gore, and Obama, and Edwards. You sacrifice while they revel in it. You feel guilty for them.
NO thanks.
If there is to be a solution to a warming planet, great effort and some sacrifice will be required by everyone. Gore, Obama, and Edwards have been messengers. I'm not guilt tripping for anyone. We are experiencing global warming from atmospheric carbon dioxide. If we do not find clean alternatives to fossil fuel we all will pay the ultimate price. And we must start now. We can't afford to wait. It is not a hair shirt when we all work together. We can't do this individually. Some solutions can only come from government mandates. This is one of those times where our Government should create an environment for research an development by taxing fossil fuels. It would force auto manufactures to build fuel efficient cars and would drive r&d funding for clean fuel
ReplyDeletepowered alternatives. Same story on coal. Tax it! It will make alternative fuel technologies viable and will attract R&D money. Jobs will be created. Prices will come down as innovative new technologies replace older technologies. No hair shirts needed. Just some of that good old American spirit to meet big challenges.
Dred
Dred - (what a joke of a name) you guys don't give a crap who you kill and run over to push your closeminded agenda. Don't give a shit about old folks dying in their homes for lack of heat. Don't give a shit about high gas prices cutting our ability to put food on the table. Oh no. You just need your own way. You refuse to listen to the other side. Instead of disagreeing - you try to destroy and silence those that don't duck step with you. Frankly, I think that limits your ability to think straight and discover alternatives to you limited point of view.
ReplyDeleteTaxes collected on fossil fuels could be used to to fund incentives to purchase fuel efficient electric hybrids, repurchase gas guzzlers, update home insulation and windows, and fund free mental health clinics for angry bloggers.
ReplyDeleteDred
Then you pay the taxes dipshit. I don't think my family ought to go without food so someone else can purchase a hybrid, update insulation and fund mental health clinics for assholes like yourself Dred.
ReplyDeleteAnd mass transit and soup kitchens.
ReplyDeleteDred
Thats a partial sentence and partial thought from a total dipshit dred.
ReplyDeleteDred, ponder this:
ReplyDeleteA stranger was seated next to a little girl on the airplane when the stranger turned to her and said, 'Let's talk. I've heard that flights go quicker if you strike up a conversation with your fellow passenger.'
The little girl, who had just opened her book, closed it slowly and said to the stranger, 'What would you like to talk about?'
'Oh, I don't know,' said the stranger. 'How about nuclear power?' and he smiles.
'OK, ' she said. 'That could be an interesting topic. But let me ask you a question first. A horse, a cow, and a deer all eat the same stuff - grass. Yet a deer excretes little pellets, while a cow turns out a flat patty, and a horse produces clumps of dried grass. Why do you suppose that is?'
The stranger, visibly surprised by the little girl's intelligence, thinks about it and says, 'Hmmm, I have no idea.'
To which the little girl replies, 'Do you really feel qualified to discuss nuclear power when you don't know shit?'
My question to you Dred is how do you feel qualified in discussing energy/power when you don’t know shit?
Because I'm reading "Hot, Flat, and Crowded" by Thomas L. Friedman.
ReplyDeleteHorses and cattle are grazers - they eat grass. Deer are browsers. Cattle and deer are ungulates with four chambered stomachs and they regurgitate and chew a cud. On the other hand, horses have a single chamber stomach and require better quality graze land because they don't re-chew their food. Cattle are forced to eat corn meal mixed with protein that comes from waste byproducts from poultry meat packers - things like blood feathers guts and chicken shit. It is thought that this kind of feed program will fatten beef without spreading bovine spongiform encephalopathy and is endorsed by the American Beef Producers Association who Fund a powerful lobby in Washington.
So, what did you and that little girl talk about. She probably sensed you were a Republican and that you would try to control the conversation. Didn't you bring a book to read?
Dred